Originally Posted by nachosdelux

you two might be arguing over semantics.

Pilots have a contractual limit. Pilots can choose to waive this (presuming it is less than FAR limit).

Absolute limit is FAR 117 maximum, which cannot be (legally) waived.

Originally Posted by mduell

I think that's a pretty reasonable way to describe the gap between the contractual limit and legal limit.

Originally Posted by LarryJ

There really isn't a contractual limit anymore. Since 14 CFR 117 went into effect, we fly up to the limits of the regulation.

We must certify ourselves fit for duty prior to every flight. If we are too fatigued to fly we don't certify fit, or we rescind our fit certification. Makes no difference how much rest we've had or how long we've been on duty. If I was unable to sleep at the hotel then I can be fatigued even before reporting for duty.