Originally Posted by
gglave
I was criticized for saying it at the time, but months later I'll say it again: This is exactly what happened with Tango fares on Air Canada - I'm sure United watched with interest.
At first the delta was very small - Over time it grew and grew.
Today, on a YYZ-YVR return fare, the Tango difference is $300 USD ($500 USD vs $800 USD).
The same will happen here - Not overnight, but it will happen. Mark my words.
AC and UA operate in very, very different markets, and I don't think competitive forces will ever allow the kind of differentials you see on Tango vs. Flex on AC. It just won't happen.
How many carriers fly YYZ-YVR? 2? (I mean, really, with relative frequency, I barely count transat at 1x per day). On a comparably popular route within the US, say NYC-SFO, I count at least 6 different carriers flying nonstop. There's a reason AC could get away with limited benefit fares (Tango) 15-20 years ago, but UA (or DL, or AA, etc.) couldn't do it now...until the ULCC crowd became enough of a threat.
Originally Posted by
mrswirl
Haven't noticed BE fare differentials much until recently. Looking at a high-frequency route like DEN-SFO is showing price consistency among all the carriers - but only if comparing against BE fares. Regular economy adds a 45% premium!!
This is where UA is going to fail. Why on earth would someone choose UA over WN in this situation??
Lots of reasons.
Firstly, unless the traveler is saavy enough to know to go to Southwest's website, they will never even know what the fare is with them. Many will go to whatever OTA they use....Orbitz, Expedia, etc. and will look there. WN fares won't show up, and they'll see the UA fares, along with others, and see what pops up first.
Secondly, not everybody books solely based on price. Some may not like WNs boarding policy, greyhound style seating (at least with BE, you get a seat assignment of some kind prior to boarding, even if its not ideal), and some may not want to have wannabe stand up comedians give announcements for 2 hours. Some may like the UA departure times better. Some may want UA RDMs. Or some might want to (cough, cough) buy up to regular economy, yup, even over WN, because they need the PQMs for next year's status, or want to burn miles on an upgrade, or whatever (not saying that's advisable here, but some may want that). For me personally, my biggest reason for not flying WN in the past: until last month, they didn't even serve my home airport (but that's a minor issue, right?), and even if they did, often don't serve both ends.
Absolutely, some may see a better value in the WN fare, and that's great for them. Even with BE, some others may see better value on UA, too.
Originally Posted by
FrenchBullies1975
On UA292 for a business trip. I'm guessing 2/3 of this flight is in Basic Economy fares, given the length of the Group 5 line and the number of groups that have been split up. Woman just asked me to give up 7F for a middle so she could sit with her 12-ish year old daughter.
The gentleman in 7C is a much better person than I am, clearly.
What a show
Traveling with a toddler, I do sympathize with those who are split up from their kids, and do try and accommodate....when it is something out of their control - which does happen enough. When they tried to save $20 and try to inconvenience others...nope. They need to buy the fare that's right for them....if sitting together is important - that is not BE.
Originally Posted by
Francactc
If you purchase a basic ticket can you still check a free bag if you have the united CC? Also, if you are not assigned a seat and the flight full what would happen if only economy plus seats are left open?
Checked bag charges/waivers don't change based on BE. Seats will be assigned...either you'll be put in whatever empty seat, it might be in E+, or GAs will move people/kiosk will offer E+ to others, and you will get assigned somethig in the freed up E- seats.
Originally Posted by
Kacee
Nor is the large number of BE pax a sign of success. UA doesn't want to sell lots of BE tix (especially now that they've limited the fares to the discount classes). They want customers to be paying up to get out of these fares.
I disagree - I think with the $20 differentials, or whatever, UA can make out either way. For those that buy up to regular, they are getting the extra revenue earlier, but for those who end up in BE, they likely get the extra revenue (and then some) with checked bag fees since even standard carry-on rollers are subject to those (if elites are buying these fares though in relatively high numbers though....then yeah, that's an issue).
Originally Posted by
Kacee
Pax paying the same for BE as they were previously paying for cheapest available regular economy would result in revenue neutral, not an increase in fare revenue.
And UA would be foregoing E+ revenue, TOD revenue, and change fees with these fares, which may well neutralize or even outweigh any uptick in checked bag fees.
Not necessarily revenue neutral, because if these folks now have to pay to check a bag, where they could carry it on free before, that's still $25 each way.
My guess is that the amount of people buying BE that would buy E+ or upgrades are minimal - probably statistically insignificant so probably very little if any revenue loss there. Maybe the change fees are an issue, but on the other hand, for a change, these tickets become throw away, UA can keep the revenue while re-selling the seat, and then they potentially have the pax buying another ticket for a different flight (potentially, because without being able to re-use the value, I'd guess you have more folks that will look at other carriers vs. on a regular ticket where a change means they'd try to use the value left).
Originally Posted by
Kacee
That's what UA planned for. But the reports of very large BG5 and lots of unassigned seats at T-24 suggests that UA may be selling more of these tix than they intended.
Disagree. If they were selling 'too many' N fares, then they'd just zero out the buckets when they've sold enough. My guess: UA doesn't really have too much of an issue selling the amount of N fares they do.
Originally Posted by
Kacee
From the fare rules:
TICKETS MAY ONLY BE SOLD IN THE UNITED STATES.
Online changes POS to local based on CC address, but I'm not sure buying over the phone does that.
I haven't heard of it for BE, but people have reported being able to get US POS prices by calling in and using their local, non-US cards with an agent. Of course, in this case, the phone booking fee would likely cost more than the BE to regular fare differential, so there's that, but presumably, it is still possible.