Originally Posted by
edy4eva
His was based on the observation of A380s flying long haul 'from' various US hubs to what he essentially considers as a cul de sac destination. If other airlines couldn't do it, then EK simply can not.
Neither EK nor any other airline is able to operate ultra long-haul flights at a profit, that is for sure, not even between major major markets like NYC-Delhi, ultra long haul turned out to be a good idea.
We all know the economies of scale of longhaul flights. And the OP has a very valid point questioning whether a daily A380 on SFO-DXB makes sense, that is as easy an answer as the question whether EK is subsidised or not.
Originally Posted by
edy4eva
Despite that the OP maintained his position foreseeing that EK will belly up in 5 years. The OP appeared to several as someone trolling the thread which was about to get shut by the mods.
The mothership went belly up already some years ago, before the relatives from AUH saved most of Dubai from going down, as far as I remember there was not enough money to save the World, but other prestigous projects were saved and were not falling victim to the sea.
Running ops. between Europe and Dubai (almost perfect stage length) and connecting passengers via DXB to key Asian and maybe some African markets makes sense and these are the routes where EK might run a positive cash flow from basic ops., at least for some months of the year, seasonality is still a major major issue.
But building your own lounge, asking your handlers to run 6-8 check-in counters for a simple 772, sponsoring local soccer clubs with insane amounts gives you the real picture again, they simply do not care what they spend, as long as the losses are sustainable and the big picture makes financial sense.
And as mentioned earlier, the remedies the competitors are utilising are starting to get back at EK. Aside from rising legacy costs at EK, the competition fought back with the only real working remedy, non-stop service.
One of the most lucrative secondary market for EK in Europe is DUS, well, it used to be DUS. Huge catchment, hardly any competition having something really unique (non-stop service to Asia) so EK really did a good job with loads in the 90's during the European Winter and these are real numbers without somebody from Dubai taking a second look at it before they are published.
But then Star started playing hardball and launched non-stop service to China and Japan with BKK on the horizon, so basically 40-50 C and 150-200 Y seats plus very lucrative (high speed) cargo are gone, because the NE3 cannot compete on speed, the most profitable factor in aviation. A few years ago, they tried to compete on speed on HAM-JFK, well, it turned out to be a speedy exit minus the soccer sponsoring.
EK could employ the A 380, which is still used as one of their major marketing weapons, but again certain passengers are simply gone, thanks to Star. Not that EK could really demand high yields in the first place....the usual downside for H&S operations.
Even worse, LH is also starting to operate high density A343 to destinations, which were really owned by EK and the NE3 over the last years, very thin holiday destinations (Mauritius, Seychelles etc.) that will never be really profitable, but as long as they break even, LH should do fine and it is worth a shot, the 343 are fully depreciated anyway. It is not like paying a monthly leasing rate of close to $ 1.9 million for just one A380.
To summarize this thread:
EK is heavily subsidized, certain parts of the network might run a profit from basic operations.
Ultra long-haul ops. are insane, you are basically flying fuel across the world. Decreasing oil prices are helping, though.
The competition is fighting back, it will be interesting to see whether most of the routes flown with rel. small long-haul aircraft are providing enough passengers, the yields are certainly worth it, but the critical number of pax has to be reached day in and day out, on every Wednesday and Saturday in low season...and one empty flight wipes out all the profits from 6 good days.
Nobody at EK really cares whether the daily A380 flying 8000 miles breaks even taking a look at the bare numbers, that is a massive difference in comparison to more transparent airlines we find in Europe. An AF or LH A380 has to break even, otherwise it will be gone. Be careful before investing your minimum share of $15-20k.
There is a huge difference between flying and building an A380 from a financial perspective, a A380NEO would be the next best thing, I am talking about a 15% potential, which can be easily achieved from a technical point of view, the basic investments for such a project might not look too good, especially the initial financing. One should never forget that Airbus has all hands full anyway with other projects, which are waaaay more profitable.