Originally Posted by
fahrradman
How'd that whole anarchy thing work out for Somalia?
In parts of "orderly" Scandinavia, what is the result of merely holding a kitchen knife while heading to your own balcony to shout down at some street thugs to tell them to leave alone the innocent people on the street below? The police bust down your door, shoot and then prevaricate so as to try to point the blame elsewhere and at the victim of state brutality. At least during the anarchy in your extreme example, holding a gun or a knife to prevent or end a sexual assault attack on someone else was possible without the police busting down the door and shooting you for that. Not that it was ideal before or during "anarchy" there.
The US is far less "orderly" than Scandinavia or even the UK, however it compares to Israel. All the mentioned entities being places that are considered to have well established "democratic" order; and yet the way the state authorities in these places approach individuals can be just as lousy as can be anywhere when the object of state agent action or non-state agent action.
Originally Posted by fahrradman
Seriously, governments are simply a collection of imperfect individuals and are therefore imperfect. I'm reminded of the old Winston Churchill quote "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
I have never been impressed by that quote. Democracy can be the ultimate handmaiden of tyranny too, something Churchill should have realized given Hitler got empowered democratically; and he should have known the history behind the notion of tyrant/tyranny in classical Greek history was rooted in having won over the support of the necessary "demes".
That democracy may -- under some conditions -- be better than other forms of government doesn't undermine the fact that states -- democratic or otherwise -- are lousy moral actors and the ultimate thugs.
Originally Posted by fahrradman
I for one and quite happy to live in a country where we live under the rule of law, most of the time.
Well, the Norwegian woman was subject to the rule of law in the UAE, and then pardoned, under the rule of law in the UAE.
Just about everywhere, people live under the rule of law; however, the rule of law -- just about everywhere -- is at the whim of the government. Governmental actors choose who/how to pursue or not pursue, who/how to charge or not charge, who/how to prosecute or not, etc. Given the plethora of laws and the complexity involved in modern nation-states -- "western" "liberal democratic republics" included -- the rule of law is more largely about "priorities" based on governmental actors' personal preferences/prejudices than it is equal justice (equal application of the rule of law) for all.
Originally Posted by
fahrradman
Glad to see the whole "blame the victim" rape defense is still alive. I thought we got beyond the "she was asking for it" mentality sometime in the last millennium.
Maybe consider joining us in the 21st century.
"Blame the victim" it may not necessarily be. There are some people who falsely accuse others of a crime, and the motivation for false accusations can vary -- having a desire for revenge, seeking to protect one's own reputation, seeking fame, or one of a variety of other possibilities.
They certainly didn't blame her for being raped. She was convicted for perjury, unlawful intoxication and unlawful fornication. The unlawful fornication charge is ridiculous in my opinion -- and the charge is all the more ridiculous given the huge amount of prostitution that is allowed to take place in the UAE -- but the charge of unlawful fornication is part of the rule of law in the UAE. By the way, many states in the US used to have unlawful fornication laws too. How those US unlawful fornication laws were enforced or not enforced was also a product of authorities' preferences/prejudices.
Originally Posted by
ghostchips
So what happens to a woman if she uses self-defense against an attacker? For example: Some filthy dude decides he will go after her - only to be taken by surprise as this woman drops him like a ton of bricks, leaving him in the fetal position, beaten to a pulp.
Will this woman get away with the fact it was self-defense or will she get done for assault? LOL Because obviously if she (according to their silly laws) allows the rape/attack to happen it's her fault. How will they handle the situation if she fights back.
As a male, it would be brilliant to start hearing stories of chicks kicking ... and standing up for themselves physically (even if they're as petite as anything!). Being a personal trainer I also encourage more women to ditch yoga, take up kickboxing and go lift.
It has happened before. Some drunk British man who was allegedly cheating a female prostitute of money got pounded by the prostitute. The police were called and the drunk British guy ended up having the British embassy team involved there. The police were not interested in pursuing the prostitute.