Originally Posted by
AeroWesty
With domestic U.S. fares in First coming down dramatically of late, I think the next big change will be that First will be renamed Business on most domestic routes, with First reserved solely for 3-class aircraft flying on transcon routes. It would be a fairer representation of the product offered.
I would prefer this. I've run into problems due to the American carriers not following this fairly global standard. Simple example: trying to redeem Avios for a simple narrowbody short-haul AA flight in domestic first prices out as if it's a three-cabin F plane (e.g., 13,500 Avios instead of the 9,000 Avios it should cost).
Agree with you on the middle-ground: I'm happy to see the concept of E+ holding fast with U.S. majors. Whether I get it included as an elite or can choose to buy it at a modest upcharge, I'm glad it's there.
Originally Posted by
KoKoBuddy
I never get the hatred for fee based airline service. Virtually every other business runs this way. You get a base product for $X and then every add-on costs $Y. Yet when an airline offers a flight from point A to B for $X and then you have to pay $Y for a drink or checked bags or a blanket everyone freaks out.
I think it has to do with what we all perceive as the "base product".
I perceive the base product to be as follows:
- The airplane can safely operate from point A to point B. (e.g., The fuel in the plane is not an add-on cost. It's bought with my base tariff.)
- I have at least one reasonable method to buy and pay for the ticket. (e.g., The airline's own website using at least an MC or Visa. Obviously preferably Amex or Diner's as well.)
- There are no deceptive tricks or intentional obstacles solely intended to trip me up into paying a junk fee. (e.g., Simple things like using a kiosk to print a boarding pass should be allowed.)
- Here's where there may be some disagreement: I consider the ability to bring at least one standard carryon to be part of the base product.
- A standard coach seat of, say, 31" pitch.
- Ability to assign a seat in standard coach. (*Or* if any assigned seat at all is considered an extra, then a formal published IDB protocol that is independent of seat assignment.)
- Access to the lav. Access to potable water.
- Phone/airport bookings when the Internet can't support the booking.
Things that I perceive as "extras". Some I think airlines should maybe offer for free as a competitive advantage, but if they charged for them I'd understand it:
- E+ type seats...35-36" pitch.
- I'm begrudgingly accepting that checked bags will fully move into the "extra" category.
- Preassigned other "good" coach seats, such as exit row or the first few rows of Y.
- Food/bev. I could honestly care less if they decide to start charging for Cokes.
- Wifi.
- Phone/airport bookings when a web booking could have been done.
Maybe there are other products to be offered in there somewhere, but this is where I feel like the base product is. If enough people feel similarly, then the industry will have a lot of work to do to move people to a new norm. I find it interesting that they went there en masse with bag fees, but most (all?) have stepped back a bit by offering at least one easy backdoor to a single free checked bag.
I still think for us FT'ers the more interesting industry battle is what happens to the 25,000-mile and 50,000-mile elite tiers.
One other tidbit that we haven't discussed much here: Ryanair got a lot of global publicity with those 1-euro fares. That may have helped "grease" their fee culture along. It's sort of like a game, pay a euro and then try to dodge the fees. Here, outside of a few routes operated by Spirit, nobody's really tried this. Our general take is that fees come
on top of the existing fare structure. The feeling is that we just paid more for something we used to get for less. The Ryanair feeling is frequently "this system sort of sucks, but my total bill is lower than Lingus so I can live with it."