Originally Posted by
N965VJ
And I can tell you, without reading it, that not a single scrap of it will refer to the entitlement at security that you claim you can exercise i.e. deadheaders cutting a line. If you want to rely on pieces of legislation and regulations then you have to take the rough with the smooth therein. No entitlement for deadheading crews to short circuit a security line will be cited there. It is the responsibility of the operator to schedule things appropriately without having to resort to what the OP cites, to guarantee a deadheading crew travels on a flight (as passengers). Local transport to the airport will not be counting towards your rest period either, I presume, so you are already on duty time.
Originally Posted by
able
"Minimum rest" is just that. It is regulatory in nature not contractual. Because of the financial turmoil and Chapter 11 restructuring that has taken place most of the major carriers can schedule against the FAA maximums.
No change then! Actually many airlines crews enjoy rest periods between sectors in excess of the regulatory minimum but the crew refer to the contractual minimum as just that... 'minimum rest time'. There are plenty of examples of crew refusing to take an aircraft on (e.g. after a weather div) despite being legal by virtue of min legal rest but outside contractual agreements (and some outrageous ones at that!) and insisting on contractual agreed local rest time and consequently inconveniencing passeners needlessly
For some reason the FAA does not penalize the company when a rest violation occurs, they take certificate action against the pilot in question.
Because The Commander of the aircraft is deemed responsible if the violation occurs in this case
It is non unusual at all to be up against minimum rest requirements and often a ten or fifteen minute delay will be required to run out the clock on a rest period to ensure a legal departure.
Presumably after cutting the line to get there. Remember this thread is about 'Deadheaders cutting a line' not about the requirement for the op crew to depart legally
You are incorrect but even if you were correct it would be short sighted and stupid for an aircrew member to shortchange rest simply so they could avoid cutting in front of you in line. Should the rest regulations change (as they are due to shortly) this will likely not change.
Oh dear, I'm wrong but even if I was right I would be wrong! Again this all boils down to scheduling and the choices made by the carrier. Deadhead crew 'short changing rest' by waiting in line? You should already be out of your rest period if you have reported and into pure 'duty time' as a 'deadheadher'. Is this really puported as an actual throught process e.g. 'I really need to cut this line to meet rest minimums'.
Logic be damned you say! Crew should not cut in line but no departures should be delayed either. According to you it's up to airline management to sprinkle fairy dust and ensure their crews will be on time while still waiting in lines of varying duration.
Again, we are talking abot DEADHEADERS. I (and the OP it seems) have no probs with operating crew having some privileges to actually guarantee the departure slot is made. Please do not attempt to cloud the issue by merging the deadheaders situation with that of op crew. No dep should be delayed because of deadheaders failing to make the gate before close out
They are being transported as passengers to operate a flight at the next station. They are still mid trip and subject to the same rest requirements as the rest of the crew. The one carve out to transportation time used as rest time is "transportation not local in nature." Therefore deadhead time is counted as duty time and consequently can not be used as rest time.
They are being transported as pax full stop. What their rest requirements immediately before this flight have been and after it (since they have now arrived) are not relevant. Of course you are on duty time on board and it does not count towards rest but this appears irrelevant
They are entitled and in fact are required to use the employee lines to arrive at the gate. Because flights at downstream stations are dependent on these deadheading crews the airline has no choice but to delay an outbound flight for deadheading crewmembers who are not at the gate on time.
Will have to beg to differ. I think it is taken unasked by many deadhead crew rather than granted as an entitlement, especially where the employee line is in fact a pax line with employee (airport staff / op crew) priority. Base crews may get this privilege via a staff entry facility but non-based deadheaders.....no entitlement per se
You don't and there does indeed appear to be a need to slow it down for you.
Slow it down to a compete stop, please! Can you point to one piece of regulation that grants deadheading crew entitlement by right to 'cut a line' in front of their fellow PAX also holding a boarding pass. If not, then you can assume there is a very good reason...no entitlement!
You appear to be the arrogant one here.
By deigning to debate with you?
Deadhead time counts against duty time but not flight time.
Yes, we sort of knew that but why did the answer have to be dragged out? Even ground employees can be on duty time. Do not mix up duty time with flight time. Not the same (at all)
For instance, on a transcontinental trip it may be necessary to deadhead a crew in both directions to operate the flight if a crew is not available on the opposite coast. JFK-LAX-JFK can be flown in under sixteen duty hours but not under eight flight hours.
And how does all this irrelevancy support the argument to cutting the line. And yet another scheduling / resourcing issue not a regulatory one.
This occurs more often than one would think due to gauge substitutions and other out of position crew issues.
Throw that in as well, is the kitchen sink next? Try to address the substance of your text to the OP question. At the end of the day you are arguing in favour of something which the beneficiaries of such a habit have decided they feel is their right (did I hear someone say perk?) rather than something which is actually mandated by virtue of necessity. When previous posters in favour state such things as it is 'a perk worldwide' and 'the OP should just become a pilot' this does not really tend to support your argument in a favourable or meaningful way. I am afraid comments like these from some posters keyboards appear to work for the prosecution of the OP's grievance
Originally Posted by
able
Crew rest periods begin fifteen minutes after blocking in and end at report time.
Time spent in transit between the airports and hotels is considered part of the rest period.
A crewmember (deadheading or operating) who is in the security line may actually be "resting" while getting screened.
Therefore, reporting earlier is often not an option.
Make up your mind able. Are you saying you are still on regulatory rest time (after having reported?) whilst going through security or are you simply on 'duty time' as deadheader and therefore NOT counting towards rest time
Yes, it's the cake and eat it syndrome again!