Well, you didn't exactly answer the question of "since when?" I guess the answer is since they shut down nwa.com earlier this year? That's another big devaluation in my book. And, for that matter, there do not appear to be nearly the number of KLM flights available at low level either that there use to be, looks to me less than 5% of the number of shoulder season and off season low mileage award flights being made available compared to about a year ago.