GrizShel

I thought about posting this in the thread about how to search for international business award tickets but I decided to start a new thread here because the techniques suggested there are not working for me (and because I'll be satisfied with coach tickets if I can get a half-way decent schedule). The big problem is I think # 1 below:

1. No matter what I do, I cannot get any KLM or Air France flights to show. Delta appears to have completely removed the ability to see (and to book?) any KL or AF flights for award tickets. (I get the dreaded "There are no flights available for the day requested" message.)

2. If I search for WAS-VIE (which incidently now requires THREE SEPARATE SEARCHES for BWI, IAD, AND DCA thanks to recent "improvements" by Delta) no flights are ever returned. Supposedly Delta doesn't fly to Vienna (well, true for their metal if you don't count KLM).

3. Confining the search to hub to hub one way does not help. In fact the lowest mileage levels I usually see are 90k or 125k for coach, 200k or more for business); but I still can't get any KL or AF flights to display.

What other options do I have to build an award trip given that Delta.com is totally disfunctional for this purpose?

For what it is worth, I am searching for two WAS-VIE tickets for Sept. 15 or 16 and returning Sept. 20 or 21.

GBadger

Unfortunately, the only answer I know of is call SMS...

FlytheTail

For AF, you can search for award travel availability (O for business and X for coach I think) using ExpertFlyer or one of the free search tools such as this fare class site. It's been pretty consistent for me. However, once you find availability for the routes/dates you want, good luck having those options show up on delta.com. You might get lucky or, more likely, you'll have to call Delta and tell them the flights you're interested in.

3Cforme

First, AF and KL flights aren't available except at Low redemption levels. Awards at Medium and High levels are only valid for travel on flights operated by Delta or Delta Connection Carriers. You may find long stretches where Low award inventory is not available.

If you're not inclined to call Delta, Denolloyd's search technique can work. He describes it in detail. The method is not exclusive to Business class searches.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...ss-awards.html

I have found that lots of carriers and routings will pull up in searches by schedule that are not displayed in searches by price (mileage levels).

AF and Alitalia award inventories are displayed by ExpertFlyer. Delta hasn't denied availability for any AF inventory I have found on EF.

GrizShel

Since when? Before they disabled nwa.com I could always find KLM flights at any mileage level offered. And I wasn't (until the final months of nwa.com when it was partially disabled but still worked much better than delta.com) ever given the stupid messages that no flights even existed - pure baloney. Bottom line delta.com award booking is about 50 to 100x less user-friendly than nwa.com was - that's seriously (I am NOT exagerating) the ratio of the amount of time required to do award searches on the current delta.com versus nwa.com in its prime a couple of years ago. (and Delta wonders why this Platinum finally got fed up?)

No lie. In previous searches I could find no available delta flights for multiple month periods to some destinations.

Now that's good to hear! I may have to subscribe to the Expert Flyer tool to avoid losing my sanity trying to use the 400k miles I accumulated since I previously exhausted my WorldPerks account.

KLC

"Awards at Medium and High levels are only valid for travel on flights operated by Delta or Delta Connection Carriers."

from: http://www.delta.com/skymiles/use_mi...eage/index.jsp

RobertH

For the heck of it I tried searching for 2 Business Class seats from DTW to CDG next Jan 11 with return Jan 18. I clicked on the box saying I was flexible with dates. I did not specify Delta flights only. I got the calendar back and virtually every day in January had seats available at the low level. On Jan 11th it was for the Air France non-stop from Detroit.

I did not go further and actually try to book the itinerary. I suppose it could be the Delta search engine was wrong - but it sure appeared they were showing Business Class seat availability on Air France.

blug

This is how to book AF and KL award online:

(1) get a flying blue account.
(2) go to airfrance.us, login, then search for the awards.
(3) if a "classic award" seat is available, you can book it using DL miles. you can't book "flex award".
(4) go to DL.com, do an award search, remember to search by schedule, NOT by price. Sometimes you need to search segment by segment (i.e., multi-city) in order for the AF/KL flight to show up.

I've always been able to book AF or KL award flights on DL.com, and I found DL.com to perfectly match the award availability on airfrance.us.

GrizShel

Well, you didn't exactly answer the question of "since when?" I guess the answer is since they shut down nwa.com earlier this year? That's another big devaluation in my book. And, for that matter, there do not appear to be nearly the number of KLM flights available at low level either that there use to be, looks to me less than 5% of the number of shoulder season and off season low mileage award flights being made available compared to about a year ago.

GrizShel

Thanks for the helpful advice - one more question: Does Flying Blue require you to have enough miles in your account for the available flights to show up? If so, I still won't be able to use this method.

blug

No it doesn't. I have 0 FB miles.

MikeyZBT

No, you are right. Delta's website isn't messed up. Delta has never offered "medium and high" award availability on Air France. If you want AF or KLM, you have to find "low". In addition to there being a LOT of DTW-CDG availability in 2011, there is also a ton of LAX-CDG roundtrip, in business, non-stop, on Air France, for 100,000 miles. I might gobble one up right now!!

bmh3s

I must be hitting a bad run of luck with Diamond line tonight. I've found "classic award" seat availability via airfrance.us, but 3 agents now have told me those seats aren't available for Delta. Of course two of the agents, after I found what appeared to be "classic award" seats via codeshare on KQ, sternly told me KQ is not a part of Skyteam.....

Oh well, keep searching!

pbarnette

IAD-CDG also has very good availability. And I've found decent availability on JFK-AMS and ORD-AMS on KLM. JFK-CDG and BOS-CDG, unfortunately for me, have been almost impossible to find.

GrizShel

Thanks to all above for some great tips; it's a new world for me having to navigate this very difficult and complicated world of Delta award travel (fortunately I don't have to do it full time anymore). I didn't feel the full impact of the transition until they shut down nwa.com which was still much easier for me to use at that time (even though they had removed a significant amount of the functionality from it by then).

Editorial note:
I'm just now really starting to look to use some of my Skymiles since WorldPerks type bookings disappeared (last use of Skyperks miles was Thanksgiving holidays - for memorial service btw not vacation). I do feel a lot more relaxed now that I have a new primary goal this year - working towards lifetime Platinum on AA which has the advantage of greatly slowing my accumulation of Skymiles (which are very tedious and time consuming to figure out how to use). And now, for the first time in my life, I can fly on almost any major US airline with status, so I truly feel free to choose exactly what flights I want.