PHL-YYZ: Insanely expensive with cash, cheap with miles. Huh?
Aug 23, 2014, 7:53 am
#1
Original Poster
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PHL-YYZ: Insanely expensive with cash, cheap with miles. Huh?
Just booked a PHL-YYZ rt, 9/5-9/7. US wanted $1300. 
Yet I was able to get my seats for just 20,000 miles (including the DMS discount) and $61. Each cabin looked more than half empty, too, according to the seat maps.
AC also flies this route, so it's not as if US has a monopoly.
Any explanations?
Yet I was able to get my seats for just 20,000 miles (including the DMS discount) and $61. Each cabin looked more than half empty, too, according to the seat maps.
AC also flies this route, so it's not as if US has a monopoly.
Any explanations?
Last edited by tommyleo; Aug 23, 2014 at 8:01 am
Aug 23, 2014, 8:20 am
#2
Join Date: Mar 2009
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There are different factors:
- direct flights were always more expensive
- on the outbound you only get 7 days advanced purchase fare
- on the inbound you get a 14 days advanced purchase fare
There are cheaper fares on US, but they need to be booked at least 30 days in advance:
[KVS Availability Tool 7.4.2/Diamond - Fares/PSH/RU]
- direct flights were always more expensive
- on the outbound you only get 7 days advanced purchase fare
- on the inbound you get a 14 days advanced purchase fare
There are cheaper fares on US, but they need to be booked at least 30 days in advance:
[KVS Availability Tool 7.4.2/Diamond - Fares/PSH/RU]
Code:
PHL Philadelphia Metro / Intl PA US = PHL TTN ZFV [KPHL] YYZ Toronto Lester B Pearson Intl ON CA [CYYZ] R/T 05 Sep 2014 | Economy-Low Carrier From To Fare Cur AdvanceP Min Max Fare Basis | Travel Period --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- --- -------------------------- US PHL YTO 599 USD 30 Days VA30ZNH1 -31 Mar US PHL YTO 688 USD 21 Days VA21ZNH1 -31 Mar US PHL YTO 785 USD 30 Days AA30ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 874 USD 21 Days AA21ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 999 USD 14 Days QA14ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1161 USD 14 Days HA14ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1185 USD 14 Days AA14ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1280 USD 7 Days MA07ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1347 USD 14 Days AA14ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1466 USD 7 Days AA07ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1759 USD 10 Days BA10ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1945 USD 10 Days AA10ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 1976 USD 3 Days BA03ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2026 USD *** BXA0NA2 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2127 USD *** BA00ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2162 USD 3 Days AA03ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2313 USD *** AA00ZNH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2764 USD *** BA00ZRH1 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2861 USD *** Y6 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2902 USD *** YA2AA 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2916 USD *** B6DM 08 Apr- US PHL YTO 2950 USD *** AA00ZRH1 08 Apr-
Aug 23, 2014, 8:34 am
#3
Original Poster
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Posts: 4,904
Thanks, but that still doesn't explain why US is asking $1300 for PHL-YYZ on those dates. For example, I can book PHL-LAX on the same dates right now for $693.
Aug 23, 2014, 8:38 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
I can't tell you why, but it's been that way any time I've looked at flights to eastern Canada in the last few years - on any carrier. If I have to guess, it's probably heavily skewed to business travel and is profitable with that fare structure. But yeah, Avios are the best way to get to eastern Canada if you're flying US Airways.
Aug 23, 2014, 10:05 am
#5
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Travel Safety/Security & Texas, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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A co-worker of mine regularly flies PHX-DSM (she's from that area), something like 2-3 hours nonstop. I can usually find PHX-AVP (through either PHL or CLT) for much less. She doesn't like it, but that's just the way it is.
Sometimes she'll find better fares to MCI or OMA, but those require a drive (and usually not worth it when you factor that in).
Obviously, if you're just looking for a mileage run, then by all means take the PHL-LAX
(or check for AVP/ABE instead, as it may even be cheaper, if you don't mind the drive)
Aug 23, 2014, 1:06 pm
#6
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)
"Yet I was able to get my seats for just 20,000 miles (including the DMS discount) and $61."
As noted by PWMTrav, BA Avios will provide even better value than USDM on short-haul nonstops like this one. Only 9,000 BA Avios, versus the 20,000 USDM you paid.
The same good deal is offered on nonstops from PHL to places like YQB, YOW, YUL, MYR, CHS, and SAV.
"Yet I was able to get my seats for just 20,000 miles (including the DMS discount) and $61."
As noted by PWMTrav, BA Avios will provide even better value than USDM on short-haul nonstops like this one. Only 9,000 BA Avios, versus the 20,000 USDM you paid.
The same good deal is offered on nonstops from PHL to places like YQB, YOW, YUL, MYR, CHS, and SAV.
Aug 23, 2014, 4:27 pm
#7
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)
"Yet I was able to get my seats for just 20,000 miles (including the DMS discount) and $61."
As noted by PWMTrav, BA Avios will provide even better value than USDM on short-haul nonstops like this one. Only 9,000 BA Avios, versus the 20,000 USDM you paid.
The same good deal is offered on nonstops from PHL to places like YQB, YOW, YUL, MYR, CHS, and SAV.
"Yet I was able to get my seats for just 20,000 miles (including the DMS discount) and $61."
As noted by PWMTrav, BA Avios will provide even better value than USDM on short-haul nonstops like this one. Only 9,000 BA Avios, versus the 20,000 USDM you paid.
The same good deal is offered on nonstops from PHL to places like YQB, YOW, YUL, MYR, CHS, and SAV.
That's a great tip. Since I have no BA Avios and will likely rarely fly BA on a paid ticket, what's the best way to get Avios?
Aug 23, 2014, 4:55 pm
#8
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Travel Safety/Security & Texas, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...tive-club-446/
We have a thread here in the US forum on using BA miles on US flights:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/us-ai...s-one-way.html
Aug 23, 2014, 5:03 pm
#9
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)
"As you might suspect, that would be a question for the BA forum"
In the OP's case, it's probably more a question for the FT credit-card forums.
Several Amex- and Chase-issued cards earn points that can be easily converted to BA Avios. And the Chase/BA Visa card earns Avios directly. Look for offers with hefty sign-up bonuses.
Of course, there are other ways to earn Avios in the U.S., like crediting paid flights on AA/AS/US to a BAEC account; renting from Avis/Hertz; and staying at certain hotel chains.
"As you might suspect, that would be a question for the BA forum"
In the OP's case, it's probably more a question for the FT credit-card forums.
Several Amex- and Chase-issued cards earn points that can be easily converted to BA Avios. And the Chase/BA Visa card earns Avios directly. Look for offers with hefty sign-up bonuses.
Of course, there are other ways to earn Avios in the U.S., like crediting paid flights on AA/AS/US to a BAEC account; renting from Avis/Hertz; and staying at certain hotel chains.
Aug 23, 2014, 5:08 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Open a BA account and, as already pointed out, Amex Membership Rewards transfers 1to1 to it. It is the best way to fly US or AA short flights that are overpriced. BTW - sometimes they do a promo and you get >1 Avios for each MR point.
Aug 23, 2014, 7:15 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2001
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Posts: 187
The fares on the route have been crazy the last 6 months. Previously one could fly RT for est. $600 with 14-21 day advance. Besides the high fares the move to Terminal 3 at YYZ has made the experience even that more unpleasant!
You can get much better fares using DL via CVG and if you take the train to EWR. AC and UA and Porter (the latter fly's right into the city airport saving the cost to get downtown) or if you want OW points US is much cheaper via PHL (you can save over $1000 and get 4 segments!).
Also.. AC on their home page under DEALs often has good deals PHL-YYZ.
You can get much better fares using DL via CVG and if you take the train to EWR. AC and UA and Porter (the latter fly's right into the city airport saving the cost to get downtown) or if you want OW points US is much cheaper via PHL (you can save over $1000 and get 4 segments!).
Also.. AC on their home page under DEALs often has good deals PHL-YYZ.
Aug 24, 2014, 6:36 pm
#12
formerly bdohmen
Join Date: Jun 2013
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PHL-YYZ: Insanely expensive with cash, cheap with miles. Huh?
Have you tried the same itinerary on the AA website? I have to connect through LGA for the outbound and ORD for the return but saw it as low as $400
Aug 25, 2014, 8:36 am
#13
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Same thing on the AA side
Needed to book a flight for a last minute meeting in YYZ on Friday. Fare was $1400 (and the early flight is on an E-145). Used 25,000 AAdvantage miles and my company is reimbursing me the $584 to buyback the miles from AA.
Aug 25, 2014, 7:02 pm
#14
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PHL-YYZ: Insanely expensive with cash, cheap with miles. Huh?
For PHL-YYZ, definitely get Avios. 4,500 each direction.
Aug 26, 2014, 2:47 pm
#15
Join Date: Nov 2007
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From the Philly area if I need to get to Toronto, I’m usually heading up to EWR and doing Porter if going to downtown Toronto or UA if I need to be at Pearson. Porter is usually insanely cheap and lands at Toronto City Airport 400 feet from downtown (though you take have to take a ferry across those 400 feet of water).
No miles or segments or upgrades, but $60 one-way fares vs $350+ one-way.
No miles or segments or upgrades, but $60 one-way fares vs $350+ one-way.
