ByrdluvsAWACO

Here's the link

US Airways eyes ultra long haul

In addition to Philadelphia-Shanghai, possible routes which could be operated if US Airways acquires A340s or 777s include Philadelphia-Tel Aviv, Philadelphia-Tokyo and Phoenix-Frankfurt.

ClueByFour

I though Lufthansa tried that and could not make it work?

kinglobjaw

Now there would be 2 STAR hubs at each end. Lots of feed!

Jimmy O's

There are a lot of us old HP folks who inherited US and now fly the extended network and the TA flights out of the East coast. It's a long day flying from one of the California feeder cities like SBA or SBP to PHX-CLT-FRA.

I would forgive Tempe a lot of their sins if they could let me go SBP-PHX-FRA. Is their enough traffic in the PHX and feeder cities to make the route work? I hope so.

kinglobjaw

I think so. I think a bunch of people folks going to/from LAS would consider this nonstop FRA-PHX option. Probably the fastest option into LAS from Germany. Beats SFO/LAX Ted connections. Beats LH to PDX and US onward. Beats the DEN and PHL/CLT connections too. It would be hands down the best way to get to LAS from Germany, unless nonstop service was initiated. UK already has regular LAS service. Germany does not- except some LTU charters and what not. I think a lot of the folks flying into PHX from FRA would connect to LAS.

AZ Travels the World

They did, but they didn't have anyone feeding their flights. They were competing with BA with the other non-stop to Europe and HP had a strong code-share and FF partnership feeding both connecting and O&D passengers onto BA flights (I did it a ton myself). There just wasn't enough pure O&D traffic, without even so much as a FF partnership to sustain the route. BA has apparently done fine on the route since the end of the HP partnership (they still run a 744 6/x week), but they had 10 years to build a market for themselves. Many (like me) have sampled the US option and decided that the FF miles just aren't worth the pain and suffering and have either returned to, or stayed with BA.

I have to believe that things would be different today, given US now feeding a FRA flight, whether it be US or LH. I really expected LH to come back to PHX shortly after the merger. It looks like US may do it first.

ByrdluvsAWACO

The only reason I'm happy about this is that AA will most likely compete with their PHX-ORD-FRA routing. I would never fly US transatlantic.

NeoOfTheCRS

Jimmy,

Why are you guys even wasting your time? Why not fly UA through SFO?

Makes alot more sense and the UA 1K SWUs are a lot more generous than the useless CP upgrade certs US is dishing out.

mrhotelman

Some of us if paying or using certs, miles, etc for business class dont want to get stuck in a middle seat in business class. While Envoy may not be the best transatlantic C product out there at least US doesnt have a 2-3-2 configuation in some of its C class cabins like UA does.

NeoOfTheCRS

Never had a business center seat that happen to me. I mean if you guys like the abuse, then go right ahead. Flying SBA-PHX-PHL-FRA to where ever you are going is torture on a rat a$$ airline like US. You can get a far superior product, lower prices, and better upgrade options on UA

It will get even more fun to upgrade on US when they start tearing seats out of the A330.

I've never had US come in with a lower upgradeable fare than UA. To each his own

PHL

UA does that because the 777 and 747 are wide enough for it. The A330/340 isn't wide enough. US would certainly do 2-3-2 in Envoy if the plane was wide enough.....

mrhotelman

Thats no excuse that the plane is "wide enough". There are other carriers out that do not have a middle seat at all in C on any of their aircraft including the 777 and 747. And you don't know for sure if US would do a 2-3-2 config if the plane was wide enough. I dont think they would.

PHL

Sure they would. Being able to do 2-3-2 would allow them to have fewer rows of Envoy, leaving more room for coach seats. The A330 just isn't wide enough to accomodate any kind of competitive, comfortable biz class seats. Plain and simple.

AA, NW, UA (to name a few) all do 2-3-2 seating in their C product. BA actually does 2-4-2 with their lie-flat beds!

ClueByFour

They are cutting F seats and adding coach in the domestic fleet. They are cutting Envoy seats and adding coach on the 330. If they could jam an extra row in widthwise, all prior ancillary evidence indicates they most certainly would do it, if they could.

Only airlines that don't do three abreast in Biz (777/747) are the ones who have already made the jump to flat beds (and, as mentioned, even some of those have middles). Even Singapore and Cathay (whose service and amenities squash both UA and US in every meaningful way) have only gone to to 2 abreast in the middle of biz in the planes that have lie-flat seats. Until the beds came along, they all had 3 abreast on a 777.

If you don't want UA out of SFO, take UAX to LAX and get the LH flight to FRA. I'd be sorely tempted to drive to LAX from SBA, but I'm a glutton for punishment....

GaryZ

It was a great route, having flown it several times. I think one other reason for its demise was the price was significantly higher than competing connecting routes.