LovePrunes

Not sure how US does it, but they're part of AA, and I just experienced what you're asking about. Was on an AWARD ticket on AA and they rebooked me due to weather onto a combination of DL and US. Was a nightmare routing but at least I got home on the same day, six hours late.

wetrat0

Given the weather in Indiana the last two days, you should be thanking them profusely for not routing you through here. More likely than not, they did not route you through IND because they already had a waiver in place in Indiana due to weather, and they did not want to have a passenger stranded at a non-hub with little or no way to get out. Currently the only thing going on at IND is the local news showing stranded people sleeping on the floor.

kudzu

I don't know about Canadian courts, but you'd be facing an uphill battle in the USA - at least one Federal judge has ruled for the airline regarding weather delays, according to this article (emphasis mine)

sokolov

WestJet has interline and even codeshare agreements with many carriers, including US and AA (already before the merger). WestJet ist peculiar in that they are not a member of any alliance, but cooperate with carriers from all large alliances.

US also refused to rebook me on their own flights, unless they go through their main hubs. There were openings through Indianapolis and St. Louis, but they told me outright that I can only go through the main hubs.

BoeingBoy

Unless it's changed with the merger, I believe that US' Contract of Carriage doesn't require them to reroute you on another carrier. While travel to/from Europe has different language, I believe Canada is included in the domestic rules. I see occasionally where an elite, especially if upper tier, will be rerouted on another carrier, but it's not standard for everyone.

I also saw, I think in the press release about December traffic/capacity, that just AA/US had cancelled around 5000 flights in the 1st 8 days of January. Most of the other carriers are in the same boat so not being able to send passengers to the other carriers, who are struggling to re-accommodate their own stranded passengers, sounds plausible.

Jim

sokolov

@Kudzu: According to Art 19, the airline has to take "all measures that could reasonably be required to avoid the damage or that it was impossible for it or them to take such measures". The case you mentioned might have been a case where they took those measures. I haven't yet read that decision.

Ah, one more thing: The carrier's contract conditions are important. But you should know that the Canadian Air Transportation Agency has found every single air carrier's contract terms in contravention of the Montreal Convention and ordered the airlines to change them - every single carrier that had been subject to a complaint for that matter, that is. US Airways has not been subject to such a proceeding. Yet.

phlwookie

Good to know on WestJet, thanks. I'm glad that they don't emulate Southwest in that regard.

Your second comment though confuses me. Nearly every US flight touches a hub - some amount well under 1% don't, on routes such as PIT-LGA/RDU/STL, and BOS-BUF/ROC/SYR. They eliminated nearly every flight that doesn't go to a hub some years ago - it wasn't efficient in most cases - and there are just a few holdovers for various reasons, generally on small regional jets. IND, if they could have gotten you there, will only route to LAS via PHX, CLT, DCA or PHL on US; same for westbound out of STL. From YHZ I see no easy way through IND or STL to LAS without at least two stops en route on US.

sokolov

Yes, there would have been two or three stops, but I would have accepted that, given the circumstances. I would even have paid myself for a hotel room at PHX (they were available, I checked), because there was a flight with open seats from PHX to LAS the morning after. Alternatively, I would have rented a car and driven from PHX to LAS. (However, driving YHZ-LAS took too long.)

I am flexible, but US would have had to work with me.

The other thing that irks me was the very late cancellation of my flight. I was aware of the bad weather, and US flights were cancelled left an right - except for my flight YHZ-DCA. I also watched the incoming plane, DCA-YHZ, the entire day before my scheduled departure. It always showed "on time" - until after scheduled departure form DCA.

I checked the US website religiously for updates on their advisory, many times, it never mentioned WAS or YHZ (not even after my flight was cancelled).

Weather was not the (direct) issue in YHZ. DCA was open, YHZ was open, and AFAIK it was safe to fly inbetween. (There were planes coming and going in YHZ, including flights to/from the US.) Either the relevant plane was stuck somewhere else due to weather and could not make it to DCA (and, subsequently, not from DCA to YHZ). In that case, they should have cancelled the flights much earlier. If the plane is not in DCA, they can't advertise it as "on time" until after scheduled departure time.

Or they did have the plane in DCA, but decided to use the plane on other routes in order to bring relief to different airports. (The original plan would have ment parking the plane overnight in YHZ.) I would understand such a decision - but it is the opposite of taking "all measures that could reasonably be required to avoid the damage" to me.

BoeingBoy

A common, but misinformed, lament of passengers, often as "I looked out the window and the weather was good." The weather responsible for the delay wasn't necessarily at either of those airports or even in between.

Jim

LowlyDLsilver

With a major weather event, sending someone on a routing worthy of mileage run classification would be a fools errand and practically guarantee you would get stuck somewhere, and subject the airline to hotel and meal expenses. Simply isn't going to happen.

The second paragraph (they can use an aircraft on a different route) answers why they can say a flight is on time until it isn't - even though the probability of it being on time is actually near zero if the scheduled aircraft is actually used

While this isn't foolproof, you can figure out the planned aircraft to watch it by checking flightaware for aircraft of the same type scheduled to arrive within about 2 hours of your departure, write down the flight numbers, then check those flight numbers on US flight status page for the one arriving into your departure gate, then track that flight with flightaware. Of course, UA you would just click "where is this flight coming from" on the flight status page and work backwards - but that's what a real IT department can do with a database

ubernostrum

I've had it happen once. Was scheduled MCI-DCA-YYZ, US called me before I got to the airport to tell me MCI-DCA was delayed and I'd miss, and they'd rebooked me on AC MCI-YYZ.

I treated that as a case of getting extremely lucky, not as something that would happen all the time. And certainly not something that would happen in a major weather situation where every carrier is short on seats after getting slammed with delays and cancellations.

Slightly different data point in support: I was once on UA, STL-ORD-YYZ, and delayed to the point of missing. UA was useless, and had to rebook myself over to AC's STL-YYZ.

BoeingBoy

More likely if you're elite and especially if upper tier elite would be my guess. You're obviously right about when every airline is slammed with delays/cancalations - finding seats is hard enough for the carriers on their own flights without giving any to another carrier. From today's daily employee newsletter, US/AA cancelled over 7000 flights in the first two weeks of this month.

Jim

AirPassRightsCA

Under Article 26 of the Montreal Convention, the provisions of the convention take precedence over all contractual provisions, including tariffs:

sokolov

Thank you for your good wishes. They helped! :-)

First, US Airways refused to pay. But after I contacted https://twitter.com/AirPassRightsCA the airline miraculously agreed to pay up.

I cashed their cheque a few months ago. Article 19 FTW!

This saved my local small claims court all the work. I had already prepared the relevant documents.