Pan Am, Delta, and United Dealings at JFK and Elsewhere
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,658
Pan Am, Delta, and United Dealings at JFK and Elsewhere
With UA's recent announcement about the JFK-LHR route shutting down, I'm trying to remember where that route came from in the first place. My recollection is that it had something to do with deals that Pan Am cut with United and Delta as it was slipping away, but I'm not sure (IIRC it was about the same time TWA sold its JFW-LHR route to AA). While I'm on the subject, can someone please remind me about how Pan Am's FF program got tied in to Mileage Plus and SkyMiles? I seem to recall some Pan Am miles getting dumped into both those programs. And finally, as an aside, what ever happened to all the routes that Pan Am used to fly out of Frankfurt to other European cities?
TIA.
TIA.
#2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: DL; AA; UA; CO; LHLX; NZ; QR; EK; BA
Posts: 7,410
Originally Posted by SealBeach
With UA's recent announcement about the JFK-LHR route shutting down, I'm trying to remember where that route came from in the first place. My recollection is that it had something to do with deals that Pan Am cut with United and Delta as it was slipping away, but I'm not sure (IIRC it was about the same time TWA sold its JFW-LHR route to AA). While I'm on the subject, can someone please remind me about how Pan Am's FF program got tied in to Mileage Plus and SkyMiles? I seem to recall some Pan Am miles getting dumped into both those programs. And finally, as an aside, what ever happened to all the routes that Pan Am used to fly out of Frankfurt to other European cities?
TIA.
TIA.
Delta's purchase of the rest of PA's transatlantic operations (including the intra-Europe spokes out of FRA) happened later in 1991 as a separate deal (which also included the Pan Am Shuttle between LGA and BOS/DCA), as Pan Am's condition continued to worsen. The DL takeover of PA's other transatlantic routes took effect Nov 1 1991. By then, PA was just flying to Latin America/Carribbean mostly out of MIA with some JFK service and retained one single transatlantic routes MIA-CDG. DL then became the 'sugar daddy' of PA, until Dec 4 1991 when DL finally pulled the plug, citing that PA was like a black hole...
DL flew many of the former PA intra-Europe flights out of FRA (to WAW, PRG, BUD, OTP, SVO, IST, ATH, etc.) for a few years before totally scrapping the FRA hub in the mid-90s. PA's IGS (the intra-German flights out of TXL) was purchased earlier by Lufthansa in a separate dela and wasn't part of the DL-PA deal.
Pan Am's FF program, Worldpass was merged into DL's FF program after the DL-PA deal happened. DL took over all of the outstanding PA WorldPass miles though DL's redemption program was a lot tougher than PA's. I can't really remember too much about the WorldPass/MileagePlus agreement when the LHR routes went but there was some provision for redemption of miles for LHR flights on UA for 12-18 months. I don't believe there was an option to transfer mileage balances between the two programs.
#3
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Programs: AS MVP 100K, UA PremEx-MM
Posts: 3,335
Great summary, ClipperDelta. I sometimes wonder what the "new" Pan Am would look like today if Delta had not pulled the rug out in 12/91. The focus on South America from a MIA hub certainly had potential - look what AA has done with MIA since then.
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,658
Wow, amazing summary, ClipperDelta. Thanks very much.
#5
Join Date: May 2001
Location: exUA1K, UA MM, lifetime UA1P, AA MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,731
Originally Posted by ClipperDelta
UA's LHR access and operations were purchased from Pan Am. The transaction closed around Spring 1991 for US$290 million and some other amounts for a few 747-200s....
However, UA got some of PA's 747-100's. These were in quite ratty condition and even included some of the earliest "3 window coupes." But UA repainted them and flew them for years after the purchase.
Most of UA's 747-200's were purchased used from Qantas. (The -200's without the circular staircase were built for UA for use on the JFK-NRT route). I thought that it was ironic after reading a travel magazine (in the Doctor's office) showing a Qantas ad with A 747-200 being "white-tailed" for sale. The ad read, "When they get this old, we don't want them anymore. We replace them with NEW 747-400's". Months later, these -200's were flying UA's mainline with new paint.
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United, American, Delta, Hyatt, Hilton, Hertz, Marriott
Posts: 14,831
Nice summary ClipperDelta. United did a clever thing by buying LHR. United bought PA's Pacific routes some time before LHR, so management and the negotiating teams were familiar with one another.
#7
Join Date: May 2001
Location: exUA1K, UA MM, lifetime UA1P, AA MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,731
Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
Nice summary ClipperDelta. United did a clever thing by buying LHR. United bought PA's Pacific routes some time before LHR, so management and the negotiating teams were familiar with one another.