United favors upgrades over paid first?
Jun 24, 2017, 11:32 pm
#16
Join Date: May 2014
Programs: UA 1K, AA Gold, DL Silver
Posts: 410
Jun 24, 2017, 11:44 pm
#18
formerly FrequentFlyKid
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Programs: United Global Services, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador, National Executive Elite
Posts: 981
I've been in the situation when an IRROPS in paid first has meant I couldn't get a seat to my destination in a reasonable time frame. That said, I have benefited way more from the ability to SDC at T-24 onto a different flight then I have been inconvenienced by the situation we are discussing.
Jun 25, 2017, 12:24 am
#19
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,342
It seems by Day of Departure United does way too many ToD and CPUs of first class seats on domestic flights (often leaving zero); which then doesn't give them room to handle IRROPS of paid first class passenger, not to mention super difficult to buy a last minute First fare or for paid first class passengers to catch an earlier / later flight.
Other airlines like Air Canada are way better at holding back a couple first seats to accomodate last minute purchases or IRROPs and then processing upgrades of any remainder. The negative NPS of an involuntary downgrade must outweigh upgrading a premier 24 hours earlier. Or selling full fare first > kiosk upgrade revenue
Other airlines like Air Canada are way better at holding back a couple first seats to accomodate last minute purchases or IRROPs and then processing upgrades of any remainder. The negative NPS of an involuntary downgrade must outweigh upgrading a premier 24 hours earlier. Or selling full fare first > kiosk upgrade revenue
Having flown AC for many years, they are much less generous with clearing upgrades in advance which can be a bit of an irritant for those on the upgrade list, but this means if you run into an IRROP, there are more options for rebooking, as they hold more seats back until the gate.
This actually is a drawback of buying F/C on United for flights with connections, as if you encounter an IRROP, you're likely to face the choice of taking a downgrade on the next flight or waiting until the next flight with space up front, which could be the following day.
Personally, I think UA should do the following:
- Hold more CPU's until the gate to allow for IRROPS, same day changes
- Don't sell the last seat or two so cheaply on the TOD upgrade purchases. Selling $99 upgrades is fine if the cabin is relatively empty, but they should be so quick to sell the last seat for $99 if the cabin is booked to 19/20, for example.
Jun 25, 2017, 1:00 am
#20
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver, Colorado
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,736
Well last year on a flight between MCI-DEN, they downgraded someone else and gave my mom her seat. The three of us were paid first class and the other 5 who were traveling together must have not. The seat that my mom was supposed to sit in was broken so they downgraded one of the members of the party of 5 and gave my mom her seat.
So when there is an irop, won't United downgrade the upgrades for the paid passengers?
So when there is an irop, won't United downgrade the upgrades for the paid passengers?
Jun 25, 2017, 1:22 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,406
An oversale situation -- which is what an inoperative seat turns into -- is different than IRROPs caused by usual factors (missed connections or cancellations). In most circumstances, UA will not oversell the premium cabin on a flight in order to accommodate a passenger scheduled on another flight. In the situation you described, everyone had a confirmed reservation on the flight you were on.
Jun 25, 2017, 3:47 am
#22
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Amsterdam
Programs: MileagePlus GS
Posts: 362
I agree with the discussion. I am based in AMS and every time that there are delays in my transatlantic portion on paid F or C, there are almost never any F seats on my domestic leg as they have been allocated to upgrades.
UA then offers me a Y seat, in the back as alternative.
This practice is unacceptable especially for paying First and Business class customers.
If there are no delayed passengers (especially with domestic connections coming from International destinations) then it is easy to allocate the two-four seats for upgrades. If the seats are sold out and are all paid customers that is a different scenario.
UA then offers me a Y seat, in the back as alternative.
This practice is unacceptable especially for paying First and Business class customers.
If there are no delayed passengers (especially with domestic connections coming from International destinations) then it is easy to allocate the two-four seats for upgrades. If the seats are sold out and are all paid customers that is a different scenario.
Jun 25, 2017, 7:24 am
#25
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PIT
Programs: UAL 1K
Posts: 111
I, too, have noticed this practice rarely exists for United anymore.
I have switched most of my travel (which is usually in paid F) to AA this year and the ability to change flights to meet business needs and remain in F has been vastly superior on AA than UA. UA is losing this longtime 1K flyer because of poor service to the business customer. It is not just IRROPS, it is accommodating the high-rev business customer who needs to be nimble with travel.
I have switched most of my travel (which is usually in paid F) to AA this year and the ability to change flights to meet business needs and remain in F has been vastly superior on AA than UA. UA is losing this longtime 1K flyer because of poor service to the business customer. It is not just IRROPS, it is accommodating the high-rev business customer who needs to be nimble with travel.
Jun 25, 2017, 7:34 am
#26
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
UA holding 2 F seats to the gate does not mean that the F seats can't be purchased, it simply means that UA won't give them away until the gate. Of course, if you hold a paid F seat and there is an F seat available, you may change --- no SDC because F is fully refundable/changeable and there goes that seat.
In addition, while some people here don't really believe that there are walk up purchases, they are entirely wrong. There are people who head for the airport and have their assistant book them enroute. If they are flying in F, that is what is booked. If UA doesn't have the seat, then the TA looks elsewhere.
SDC gums this up and while there are people who benefit from it, it only encourages the purchases of discounted inflexible tickets.
But, in the meantime, once UA hands out a BP in F, the passenger is an FC passenger and whatever brand enhancement there is from doling out CPU's, certs and SDC goes away if the answer becomes that it is a conditional UG which is subject to revocation. Better to simply hold all non-F tickets to the gate and then have the software generate UG's over which the GA has no control.
In addition, while some people here don't really believe that there are walk up purchases, they are entirely wrong. There are people who head for the airport and have their assistant book them enroute. If they are flying in F, that is what is booked. If UA doesn't have the seat, then the TA looks elsewhere.
SDC gums this up and while there are people who benefit from it, it only encourages the purchases of discounted inflexible tickets.
But, in the meantime, once UA hands out a BP in F, the passenger is an FC passenger and whatever brand enhancement there is from doling out CPU's, certs and SDC goes away if the answer becomes that it is a conditional UG which is subject to revocation. Better to simply hold all non-F tickets to the gate and then have the software generate UG's over which the GA has no control.
Jun 25, 2017, 8:09 am
#27
formerly FrequentFlyKid
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Programs: United Global Services, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador, National Executive Elite
Posts: 981
Totally agree - this is one of my pet peeves with United. I recall one particular misconnect in paid F and the remaining flights for the day on that route were full in F with 5+ upgrades cleared on each flight.
Having flown AC for many years, they are much less generous with clearing upgrades in advance which can be a bit of an irritant for those on the upgrade list, but this means if you run into an IRROP, there are more options for rebooking, as they hold more seats back until the gate.
This actually is a drawback of buying F/C on United for flights with connections, as if you encounter an IRROP, you're likely to face the choice of taking a downgrade on the next flight or waiting until the next flight with space up front, which could be the following day.
Personally, I think UA should do the following:
- Hold more CPU's until the gate to allow for IRROPS, same day changes
- Don't sell the last seat or two so cheaply on the TOD upgrade purchases. Selling $99 upgrades is fine if the cabin is relatively empty, but they should be so quick to sell the last seat for $99 if the cabin is booked to 19/20, for example.
Having flown AC for many years, they are much less generous with clearing upgrades in advance which can be a bit of an irritant for those on the upgrade list, but this means if you run into an IRROP, there are more options for rebooking, as they hold more seats back until the gate.
This actually is a drawback of buying F/C on United for flights with connections, as if you encounter an IRROP, you're likely to face the choice of taking a downgrade on the next flight or waiting until the next flight with space up front, which could be the following day.
Personally, I think UA should do the following:
- Hold more CPU's until the gate to allow for IRROPS, same day changes
- Don't sell the last seat or two so cheaply on the TOD upgrade purchases. Selling $99 upgrades is fine if the cabin is relatively empty, but they should be so quick to sell the last seat for $99 if the cabin is booked to 19/20, for example.
UA holding 2 F seats to the gate does not mean that the F seats can't be purchased, it simply means that UA won't give them away until the gate. Of course, if you hold a paid F seat and there is an F seat available, you may change --- no SDC because F is fully refundable/changeable and there goes that seat.
In addition, while some people here don't really believe that there are walk up purchases, they are entirely wrong. There are people who head for the airport and have their assistant book them enroute. If they are flying in F, that is what is booked. If UA doesn't have the seat, then the TA looks elsewhere.
SDC gums this up and while there are people who benefit from it, it only encourages the purchases of discounted inflexible tickets.
But, in the meantime, once UA hands out a BP in F, the passenger is an FC passenger and whatever brand enhancement there is from doling out CPU's, certs and SDC goes away if the answer becomes that it is a conditional UG which is subject to revocation. Better to simply hold all non-F tickets to the gate and then have the software generate UG's over which the GA has no control.
In addition, while some people here don't really believe that there are walk up purchases, they are entirely wrong. There are people who head for the airport and have their assistant book them enroute. If they are flying in F, that is what is booked. If UA doesn't have the seat, then the TA looks elsewhere.
SDC gums this up and while there are people who benefit from it, it only encourages the purchases of discounted inflexible tickets.
But, in the meantime, once UA hands out a BP in F, the passenger is an FC passenger and whatever brand enhancement there is from doling out CPU's, certs and SDC goes away if the answer becomes that it is a conditional UG which is subject to revocation. Better to simply hold all non-F tickets to the gate and then have the software generate UG's over which the GA has no control.
Jun 25, 2017, 8:56 am
#29
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
an upgrade cleared in advance does (2) things. It increases loyalty and it opens up a coach seat for sale. So while the ability to sell the f cabin decreases, there are far more people who will buy the coach seat. They give away the slim chance for a large value sale for a significant chance at a small sale. Play this out over a thousand+ opportunity flights/day and it's not trivial money
Jun 25, 2017, 9:15 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: RIC
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 3,387
The real solution here is to run a more reliable, on-time operation, so that customers do not need to make last-minute changes. United has made significant progress in operational performance and now leads in many metrics.