So Where Are All The "Dragons" And Nastiness People Complain About
Sep 11, 2016, 9:54 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Central New Jersey (EWR)
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, DL SkyMiles, HHonors (Gold)
Posts: 292
My home airport is EWR and as others have said, I have never had a problem at check-in there (or anywhere else).
For the great majority of us, all we want to do is enter, have our pass scanned or card swiped and go in, which usually happens. And if we need additional service (seats changed, flights changed, etc), we get that too.
So when do we hear about The Dragons being DRAGONS?
When those who don't get let in either because of overcrowding (all too common these days due to the renovations at many clubs) or they are not qualified to go in (Domestic First Class, for example).
Sometime I think we hear complaints because the person behind the desk isn't their ideal receptionist (think Loni Anderson in WKRP In Cincinnati--bright, beautiful and with the most perfect smile and greeting).
I just feel that if you are nice and polite and you deserve to go in, you should have a pleasant and brief exchange. What more do you want?
For the great majority of us, all we want to do is enter, have our pass scanned or card swiped and go in, which usually happens. And if we need additional service (seats changed, flights changed, etc), we get that too.
So when do we hear about The Dragons being DRAGONS?
When those who don't get let in either because of overcrowding (all too common these days due to the renovations at many clubs) or they are not qualified to go in (Domestic First Class, for example).
Sometime I think we hear complaints because the person behind the desk isn't their ideal receptionist (think Loni Anderson in WKRP In Cincinnati--bright, beautiful and with the most perfect smile and greeting).
I just feel that if you are nice and polite and you deserve to go in, you should have a pleasant and brief exchange. What more do you want?
Sep 11, 2016, 10:41 pm
#32
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Central New Jersey (EWR)
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, DL SkyMiles, HHonors (Gold)
Posts: 292
All I can say is that if you are polite and you ask for help in getting admittance, you will get that help. But you will have to face the downside that you may not get that admission. If so, accept it, thank them for their time and calmly leave.
We just happen to hear about when the dragons have to be dragons: people who can't accept they can't get in and what happens when that happens.
If more people acted like the humble and polite Lt. Columbo and less like the perpetually surly Sgt. Joe Friday, the front desk would be a better place.
Sep 13, 2016, 12:02 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by porciuscato
8 segments is a very small sample size.
I'm around ~120 segments and 160,000 BIS miles so far this year. And my experience over the years has been pretty consistent - so much that you can refer to it as "Cato's law of United service":
1/3 is downright bad (i.e. openly rude or discourteous service); 1/3 is meh; and 1/3 is actually good.
That's compared to a LH, LX, or OS, for example, where the downright bad percent is less than 5%.
8 segments is a very small sample size.
I'm around ~120 segments and 160,000 BIS miles so far this year. And my experience over the years has been pretty consistent - so much that you can refer to it as "Cato's law of United service":
1/3 is downright bad (i.e. openly rude or discourteous service); 1/3 is meh; and 1/3 is actually good.
That's compared to a LH, LX, or OS, for example, where the downright bad percent is less than 5%.
I do not find LH FA's to be any better than UA FA's. And I would say that goes for all the rest of the European airlines I have flown on. I have experienced poor FA's only a very, very small number of times. The vast majority are good and I have also experienced exceptional FA's like on my LAX-IAD flight 2 weeks ago.
When I fly TATL, I always try to reserve on UA metal rather than LH. I prefer the UA service and food to LH's.
Sep 13, 2016, 12:30 am
#35
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CYYC/CYYZ
Programs: UA 1K, IHG Spire, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz P.C., GE/NEXUS
Posts: 140
First year flying UA, never encountered a dragon, everyone's been super friendly and Club agents are beyond helpful on the couple occasions where I got hit with IRROPs, including during the Denver snowstorm back in March.
In fact, I find Americans in the service industry generally much friendlier and helpful. Canadians are actually quite snobbish when it comes to customer service. I still fly AC once in awhile but generally only when necessary, they've improved a bit but I still prefer UA's people.
Was at SEA's UA Club tonight and they shut it down at 1830 for the transition to the new food offerings. Even in kicking us out the agent was super friendly and apologetic. If it was a MLL I'm sure we would just be told sternly to {leave}.
In fact, I find Americans in the service industry generally much friendlier and helpful. Canadians are actually quite snobbish when it comes to customer service. I still fly AC once in awhile but generally only when necessary, they've improved a bit but I still prefer UA's people.
Was at SEA's UA Club tonight and they shut it down at 1830 for the transition to the new food offerings. Even in kicking us out the agent was super friendly and apologetic. If it was a MLL I'm sure we would just be told sternly to {leave}.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 13, 2016 at 12:57 am Reason: Using symbols, spaces or other methods to mask vulgarities is not allowed.
Sep 13, 2016, 1:20 am
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: MPlus,OW,Hotels.com
Posts: 130
Absolutely. And I will admit that my standards, formed by a European upbringing, are higher than most. For example, I consider the following rude or discourteous:
* Taking away someone's food or drink (other than PDB) without asking, while they are still consuming it
* Sticking food or drink in someone's face, instead of handing it to them or putting it on the tray table
* Bumping or pushing past someone without saying "excuse me"
A lot of people would not consider any of these to be rude. But note these are behaviors I almost never witness on Lufthansa or other decent international carriers.
Comments/incidents like the one noted in my sig. below are more around the 5% level.
* Taking away someone's food or drink (other than PDB) without asking, while they are still consuming it
* Sticking food or drink in someone's face, instead of handing it to them or putting it on the tray table
* Bumping or pushing past someone without saying "excuse me"
A lot of people would not consider any of these to be rude. But note these are behaviors I almost never witness on Lufthansa or other decent international carriers.
Comments/incidents like the one noted in my sig. below are more around the 5% level.
* On occasion if I have been taking a stretch on a long haul and maybe speaking with an FA and another comes up and speaks to them like you are not there
* Lack of eye contact, continuing with a conversation with a co worker if you check into a lounge.
I suppose we all have our own needs and peeves,generally I am treated quite well overall and expect that in workforce the size of UA's they are not all going to be perfect.
Again in contrast as a OW Emerald through QF the sterile unhelpful service posters refer to on Asian carriers is something I have also not found, on the ground or in air and on the times I have needed service through IRROPS or dodgy meal ( everyone has cut back somewhat)Agents and FA"S have been very helpful and pleasant.
The big stand out for me is consistency and fully agree with Deming that variation is the enemy.As a 13 or 14 (can't remember when it began) GS customer the variation on UA is huge and find it much more consistent on the OW carriers I use for the bulk of my travel .I think this is the biggest challenge they have in the quest to get customers back who have left and those like me who have demoted them from being their primary carrier.
Sep 13, 2016, 4:30 am
#37
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FRA
Programs: MileagePlus Premier Silver, IHG Spire Elite, HHonors Silver, RapidRewards
Posts: 382
Only very rarely do I have enough transit time to make good use of a lounge, but recently in DEN's UC West the woman was just as nice and welcoming as she could be, and even complimented my wife's shirt. Granted, the load inside was pretty low (plenty of chairs and power outlets) so it may have been an easy day thus far...
Sep 13, 2016, 8:15 am
#39
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Avis Pres, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,305
I'm here right now and had zero issues; I got what I gave. Happy begets happy.
In fact, I'm pleased to report that it appears they brought chairs over from the Term A club during its renovation to add capacity at C2. The window seats used to be 2x2 chairs. Now they're 3x3 - and it's helping. Tremendously.
Sep 13, 2016, 9:34 am
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,752
Oy, this is reminding me.... Everytime I have an irrops on *A in Europe, I've had bad experiences. Gate agents can't seem to do reroutes, and neither can club agents (on either revenue or award tickets). I often find myself saying, "I wish I were on United right now."
UA Club agents have been Godsends in irrops. And while they may get overwhelmed, I find that a kindly smile on our end and a little empathy goes a long way.
UA Club agents have been Godsends in irrops. And while they may get overwhelmed, I find that a kindly smile on our end and a little empathy goes a long way.
Sep 13, 2016, 10:04 am
#41
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,319
I think perception of EWR varies strongly with whether or not a customer is a local (NJ/NY) resident or from elsewhere. Locals are quite used to the casual rudeness and minimal effort service that is so common in that area. Others - not so much.
As someone who lived there, but no longer, I can definitely see how that can color one's opinion.
As someone who lived there, but no longer, I can definitely see how that can color one's opinion.
Sep 13, 2016, 11:12 am
#43
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Mileage Plus 1K; Marriott Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,355
I think perception of EWR varies strongly with whether or not a customer is a local (NJ/NY) resident or from elsewhere. Locals are quite used to the casual rudeness and minimal effort service that is so common in that area. Others - not so much.
As someone who lived there, but no longer, I can definitely see how that can color one's opinion.
As someone who lived there, but no longer, I can definitely see how that can color one's opinion.
Having grown up in Jersey, I find it easy to return to the local culture and offer the right cues to avoid this reaction. But if you pass through EWR with a Midwestern or Southern expectation/display of manners, things may not work out so well.
Sep 13, 2016, 11:34 am
#44
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,620
There are some "dragons" out there, but as with most things they are not the majority of UNITED employees.
I had two encounters with a UNITED "dragon" and both times they were not pleasant and they do stick in the mind even when most dealing with UNITED employees are benign.
I had two encounters with a UNITED "dragon" and both times they were not pleasant and they do stick in the mind even when most dealing with UNITED employees are benign.
Sep 13, 2016, 11:54 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,319
Casual rudeness - especially to those who don't conform to local culture, nails the zeitgeist of EWR perfectly!
Having grown up in Jersey, I find it easy to return to the local culture and offer the right cues to avoid this reaction. But if you pass through EWR with a Midwestern or Southern expectation/display of manners, things may not work out so well.
Having grown up in Jersey, I find it easy to return to the local culture and offer the right cues to avoid this reaction. But if you pass through EWR with a Midwestern or Southern expectation/display of manners, things may not work out so well.
But saying that someone is "nice" because it is possible to get that person to act in acceptable manner through carefully modifying one's own behavior is like saying that an animal is not dangerous because trained persons can avoid being attacked (and some can even make it do tricks
).