CO_Nonrev_elite

This would be an extremely small part of the reason if any at all. The reason UA trails is that their product on more or less every level is poor. Rude agents, lazy flight attendants, poor cabin layout on many aircraft, poor on-time, poor etc etc...

MCIUnitedGuy

If you buy a LV Alzer 60, but the store has an Alzer 80 in stock should LV just give it to you because if you're willing to pay $5700 for a briefcase certainly your a high value customer and throwing you a $9000 case is the right thing to do? I mean your $5750 case is worthless if someone else happens to gets a $9000 one for free because they negotiated a very good EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT.

fastair

How do you feel about "upgraders" who pay for a lower service level and then use free benefits to fill up the call in and take the lower premium cabin fare buckets do you cant buy a steeply discounted premium cabin teams-PAC fare because those upgraders or awards tickets have filled it up? More often than not, those upgraders are using a perk they got from their job to upgrade, while some pay with their own money, most earn both their paid premium seats, or their upgrade instruments on other people's money. How dare their company value their comfort over the guy who wants low demand so he can buy discounted tickets and not have to compete for allocated inventory, seats, and meal selection? And to top it off, they actually even displace later bookers, far worse than those employees who displace nobody for fare, seat, schedule, or meal.

And I fail to see where you can't upgrade your full fare business class ticket to GF ahead of NRSA. You must be doing something wrong if you get bypassed like that after purchasing a qualifying fare and submitting a qualifying upgrade instrument.

WineCountryUA

Rules Reminder

NRSA's access to GF is a forum regular and generately leads to an active discussion. And at times some of that discussion gets a bit heated.

BUT please remember, if you disagree with another member, challenge the opinion or idea - not the person. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.

Some recent posts that got too personal or forgot the need for civility and collegiality as required by the FT rules have been deleted.

Let's continue the discussion but within the community rules.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

CO_Nonrev_elite

Yes, much in the same way that you can have 10 GS/1K passengers at the top of the upgrade list domestically, each of them having spent 20,30,40,50k+ per year to reach that status, and UA will ignore that loyalty and sell that last remaining seat at the gate for $39 to anyone, and smile when they march their way past those spending thousands to the big seat.

United has shown over and over that a dollar today is worth way more than the hundred thousand you gave me yesterday.

porciuscato

I would certainly go to another store. The store in this scenario is clearly overcharging for their high-end product in order to provide a wildly inappropriate benefit for employees. They probably won't be in business for long -- unless they have some sort of govt protection......

porciuscato

I feel just fine with that. Upgraders are still paying customers. Non-revs, by definition, are not. An upgrade is a rebate and thus just another form of payment.

And keep in mind, for every successful upgrade, a bunch of hapless upgraders pay for more expensive W (or higher) fares and get nothing for it. So the upgrade system hardly constitutes a windfall for passengers.

fastair

My post was tongue in cheek, not a serious question. But just FYI, The definition of NRSA is non-revenue, but it isn't really true. There are often published (non-mistake fares) in many LCC markets that are less than what a buddy pass service charge is. Granted those fares won't get you GF across an ocean, but competitive pricing has caused some very discounted fares to be published and companion service charges can be pretty steep. And this is for the privilege of not getting miles, a seat assignment, and waiting for a seat hoping you get on..

As for the upgrade system not being a windfall for passengers, that too could be debated. I would guess that there are usually more upgraders or award tickets on the average flight than there are NRSA passengers that get on. If the benefits of the MP system are so little, this entire forum would not be so popular. Your "it acts as a rebate" is fair, but so too, does the perk of NRSA flying act as a discount to the airline in lieu of other benefits that are would cost them real money (as in higher pay.) Many people's jobs give them flying and hotel perks as a "rebate" for their work that they get to keep for confirmed seats, an NRSA gets a benefit as well, only real difference is that it isn't confirmed and gets awarded once every revenue (and MP) ticket is accommodated in accordance with the published rules of the program.

As for upgrades as paying, I don't really debate that, but I'm sure many running for federal offices would like to. Not counting the Chirac tax and the LON premium cabin tax, most governments don't look at them as true payment, but as a rebate, a kickback for previous business, often business not paid for by the passenger, so the rebate goes to the traveler, not to the purchaser, a benefit to the worker...novel concept, reward workers with perks in the travel industry. Many employers would love the T&C rules to change to allow the purchaser to get the rebate instead of the traveler.

Again, this is not a true argument, although the points are valid, it is to put things into perspective, that some may argue hypocritically not seeing that the benefits they get for working, in fact, amount to an NRSA program with even greater benefits.

UAgeek71

for the record, I hold nothing against the employees - the benefit to sit in the premium cabin exists on all US carriers. Just like earning 1k, the employees earn their benefits too.

Also, on the NRT-ORD flight, there were no shenanigans, and every employee in GF did not trump the list or violate rules as they currently exist. C was full, and those waiting for upgrades lost, because the cabin was full, not because of NRSA.

to be clear, It did not appear that NRSA trumped any Y-C upgrades.

I am saying the rules should be changed to avoid such situations though for the betterment of the airline!

If we take the NRT-ORD flight for example - lets say hypothetically that there are 2 GS and 3 1k's who booked a D or J class fare. (which is significantly expensive). The better move on UA's part certainly would be to move those 5 people to GF, and upgrade 5/7 paid pax on the upgrade list from Y-C. Discount Business and plat and below shouldn't be eligible, but moving some HVF's to GF is a win win, and some GF seats still exist for NRSA.

The formula used to move HVF's can be debated and my idea is a absolutely just a suggestion. What is in place now, however, is certainly creates the us vs them mentality.

Of course the real best move for UA is to improve the GF cabin to make a significant change vs C so people would desire and pay or plop down miles / GPU / Cash whatever. Sadly, UA has opted to not compete for those passengers any longer.

Bottom line is the anger people feel for playing the W fare lottery and see zero upgrades at departure, but see a GF cabin with 75% NRSA on the 12 hour flight is not ideal.

Nothing to stew your anger more, than to sit for hours on end thinking how you've been duped to pay more for the economy seat. Fortunately most people don;t do that more than once. How many never fly UA again, or contemplate leaving when this happens? How is that a good idea for UA?


One last thing - full disclosure - I was on a Z fare (pricing in at around 6900), and at check in was offered the GF seat for 1299. I'm sure others had some sorts of offers but no one bit. mine was not at TOD by any means and IMHO not worth it on UA. I would have considered it on SQ, EK, LH or several other foreign flagged carriers, because there is a major difference between C / F but certainly not on UA.

bmwe92fan

Apparently many of my points have gotten lost in my style of writing - and I realize that the written word on a message board is easily misunderstood from its original intent....

In any earlier post - I think it's been deleted - I wrote that I honestly didn't have a major issue with employees in F - my point was thats one of the reasons F isn't very valuable to customers on UA - no other major global airline would do this - and yes I frequently get comped upgrades - especially on EK - to first class from business without even ever asking - and trust me there's no employees flying in F on EK or any other major carrier - while paying customers are in the back.... I have many great friends who work at UA and take advantage of this perk - but let's not pretend it doesn't affect the customer because ultimately it does...

I apologize if things got too personal - I get passionate and love this place because people will stand up and fight for what they believe and I have great respect for that - honestly. Don't want anyone thinking I have an issue with employees either as I don't - I was debating the point that I think it devalues the product - not that as humans they shouldn't have a great seat it a great perk...

Ok - enough said - I won't post any more. In enough trouble for one day!

restlessinRNO

A thoughtful , reasoned response, which I agree with.

747FC

That would be unfortunate. You made very good and well-reasoned points. the fact that there are a few out there that disagree should not stop you from expressing you views.

roadkit

Sorry you are WRONG. Last year on NRT-IAD I was #1 on the upgrade list, flying Y fare with a GPU. Upgrade didn't clear. Standing in line, 7 NR UA employees were taken to the front of the line and allowed to board before everyone else. 6 were in BF and 1 was in Y. I know this, because she was in the middle seat next to me.

When I asked why they were boarded first, she said, "We're employees flying home. They only had enough good seats for 6 and I'm junior so I have to sit here."

So you're WRONG. It happens. It happened to me. And no, UA, I am not going to forget it.

fireflash

Did you complain? Sounds like a gate agent was in the wrong there.

WineCountryUA

Were they flying NRSA or NRPS -- employees traveling on company business have a different set of rules vs employees on personal travel.