Wall Street Likes United but Support From Pilots Continues to Lag
Mar 30, 2015, 8:08 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,479
Wall Street Likes United but Support From Pilots Continues to Lag
ARTICLE: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13094...o&cm_ven=YAHOO
Things don't sound good. I thought that is why the Pilots pay Union Dues to sort these things out. 
NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- Management at United Airlines (UAL) increasingly has been gaining the backing of Wall Street analysts, but support among United pilots continues to lag.
"On a daily basis, pilots continue to report problems with pay, training, scheduling, hotels and transportation, crew meals, pilot-pushing and numerous other issues," wrote leaders of the United chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association, in a letter sent to United's 12,000 pilots on Friday.
"On a daily basis, pilots continue to report problems with pay, training, scheduling, hotels and transportation, crew meals, pilot-pushing and numerous other issues," wrote leaders of the United chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association, in a letter sent to United's 12,000 pilots on Friday.
Mar 30, 2015, 8:47 pm
#2
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: United 1K 2MM / Marriott LTP
Posts: 5,071
ARTICLE: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13094...o&cm_ven=YAHOO
Things don't sound good. I thought that is why the Pilots pay Union Dues to sort these things out.
Things don't sound good. I thought that is why the Pilots pay Union Dues to sort these things out.
Mar 30, 2015, 10:00 pm
#4
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat/2MM [23-yr. 1K, now emeritus] clawing way back to WN-A List; MR LT Titanium; HY Whateverist.
Posts: 12,396
An airline operator pressuring a pilot to work to keep schedule regardless of the pilot's health, rest, weather, or equipment condition.
See, e.g., http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pre...lotPushing.pdf
See, e.g., http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pre...lotPushing.pdf
Mar 30, 2015, 10:10 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,479
Here is an article: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...-air-wisconsin
Mar 31, 2015, 6:25 am
#6
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: san antonio, texas
Programs: 3.2MM AA, 1.4MM UA,StwdLftPlt
Posts: 1,586
My experience in observing the airline industry is that the term "pilot pushing," especially in communications addressed to union members, has taken on a larger meaning than management insisting pilots fly under less than optimal circumstances. It has become a code phrase for any management attempt to increase productivity for the same pay.
Mar 31, 2015, 7:03 am
#7
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, UA Mileage Plus 1K, AA Executive Plat, Marriott Ambassador Elite
Posts: 2,344
ARTICLE: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13094...o&cm_ven=YAHOO
Things don't sound good. I thought that is why the Pilots pay Union Dues to sort these things out.
Things don't sound good. I thought that is why the Pilots pay Union Dues to sort these things out.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 31, 2015 at 11:39 am Reason: repaired quote
Mar 31, 2015, 8:37 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,690
In the interest of staying fairly unbalanced
Management "making the over entitled employess actually work for a living"
Employee - "threatening the safety of the public by putting profits ahead of our professional judgement"
...and the truth is, always, somewhere twixt these two extremes
Management "making the over entitled employess actually work for a living"
Employee - "threatening the safety of the public by putting profits ahead of our professional judgement"
...and the truth is, always, somewhere twixt these two extremes
Mar 31, 2015, 3:30 pm
#9
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,604
In the interest of staying fairly unbalanced
Management "making the over entitled employess actually work for a living"
Employee - "threatening the safety of the public by putting profits ahead of our professional judgement"
...and the truth is, always, somewhere twixt these two extremes
Management "making the over entitled employess actually work for a living"
Employee - "threatening the safety of the public by putting profits ahead of our professional judgement"
...and the truth is, always, somewhere twixt these two extremes
Mar 31, 2015, 5:39 pm
#10
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
The insinuation that airline management put profits or getting a flight out ahead of safety is silly. While it's true they aren't on the plane, nothing kills management incentives like an incident that could have been avoided. On the other hand, there's no leverage for the pilots' union quite like bringing up safety. It's like invoicing 9/11 in the name of all-things aviation security related.
Mar 31, 2015, 6:22 pm
#11
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
The insinuation that airline management put profits or getting a flight out ahead of safety is silly. While it's true they aren't on the plane, nothing kills management incentives like an incident that could have been avoided. On the other hand, there's no leverage for the pilots' union quite like bringing up safety. It's like invoicing 9/11 in the name of all-things aviation security related.
Mar 31, 2015, 9:41 pm
#13
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Fly, with that said, I think there's been a handful of documented incidents that clearly show there's room for improvement, both in culture, and in specific processes. I would never say management is blatantly putting profits ahead of safety, but they certainly are going about their business in a way that leaves some to be desired (in regards to this topic of safety). They can do better.
Apr 1, 2015, 4:52 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,159
Perhaps I am just dense, but I fail to see the union blatantly using safety as a public negotiating position here. "pilot-pushing" is mentioned at the end of a long list of other issues and is not sensationalized in the least.
It seems instead the union is using your "mechanisms for workers to raise issues for the company to address" but it is not bringing about acceptable resolution. The union is simply saying they will not work overtime to help the company when the company doesn't want to live up to their obligations of the contract.
It amazes me that United cannot manage their union relations any better, at least from an outsiders view.
"On a daily basis, pilots continue to report problems with pay, training, scheduling, hotels and transportation, crew meals, pilot-pushing and numerous other issues," wrote leaders of the United chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association, in a letter sent to United's 12,000 pilots on Friday.
It amazes me that United cannot manage their union relations any better, at least from an outsiders view.
Apr 1, 2015, 5:31 am
#15
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 261
As for ALPA, there's not any other union that I can think of that complains publicly this much. They talk about safety, yet their pilot group at UA has unprecedented power over the operation. This is a group who has the ability to refuse to fly for any reason. They can, and have, refused aircraft for issues as small as a clogged galley drain. If ever there was a group that cries wolf to get attention, it's them.