channa

CO had better on time than today's UA, but did not have better on time than PMUA.

Doc Savage

Alright, guys, let me know what you think about this:

Have a flight scheduled from ACV back to SFO tonight about 8pm. Checked online about 9am this morning, and they had already cancelled the flight "due to ATC delays." They put me on a flight tomorrow am.

Called in to try to get on an earlier flight, no go due to the only available connecting flight being booked solid.

I've been checking the FAA website all afternoon, there are no significant delays at all at SFO, and the weather here is superb.

This is the second trip in a row they've pulled this horse manure on a Sunday night flight, so I made sure to have my car res through tomorrow and a cancellable hotel.

Getting tired of this nonsense. I don't know how they can possibly claim ATC delay 12 hours before the flight, especially when there are no reported delays. I printed out copies of the FAA website showing no ATC delays.

What should I push them for in terms of compensation? This is ridiculous! I think they are just using the SFO runway construction excuse to do whatever they want.

mahasamatman

Planes don't magically appear from nowhere. They have to come from somewhere, and weather isn't the only reason for delays. The SFO runway construction is real. Also note that what a layperson thinks is good weather isn't necessarily so for aviation. Have you considered crosswinds?

If you feel they're lying, file a DOT complaint and see what evidence United provides.

bajrbajr

Runway construction is an "air traffic control" delay?

mahasamatman

Yes. With only the two parallel runways open, ATC has to adjust flow for the available runways. No takeoffs on the crossing runways greatly reduced capacity, particularly if the winds are not favorable (at which point it could be considered ATC or weather).

wethereyet

This is area where airlines get away with all kinds of shenanigans.

Ex . Incoming crew got delayed because their flight had MX issue with lavatory. Arrived 70 minutes late. Then after they arrive, thunderstorms roll in and cause ramp to close about 40 min after original departure time. Real reason for delay was MX/crew out of position but guess what they claim? WX....
Then you miss connect and are housed later in evening. Happens ALL the time.

kirkwoodj

Ugh. Barely OT, but could you please remind me how long the runway issue is scheduled to take?

mkr

Out of curiosity...does the DOT have a system to monitor the various airlines to check up on them when they report cancellations/delays/the reasons given to make sure that what is reported is actual?

Are the airlines required to report this data? To which agency?

Steve M

Yes. Any situation at the destination airport that affects landing capacity may cause ATC to limit departures to that airport. For example, if this morning ATC knows that tonight from 8-10pm they will have limited landing capacity, and that UA has 20 flights scheduled to land in that time period and tells UA "we can only accommodate 15 of your 20 scheduled landings - you pick which 5 ones to cancel" then UA will cancel 5 scheduled flights, possibly many hours in advance, and the reason is "ATC."

In such a situation, UA will pick the 5 flights with the lowest impacts to the system overall, which include considerations like: corresponding outbound flight is also cancelled, how many passengers on the flight have onward connections, what will the cancellation do as far as putting equipment and personnel out of place, etc.

It could very well be that at an airport with construction or some sort of seasonal weather pattern, a particular flight at the end of a particular day of the week always is often one of the ones that gets cancelled, based on all the criteria that go into that decision. The fact that the flight happens to be underbooked may be a factor (if having to cancel X number of flights within a particular time frame, would you choose half-full commuters or full widebodies?), but that doesn't mean it's part of a conspiracy to cancel underbooked flights across the board.

mahasamatman

Through September.

And Steve M, that's a very well worded explanation.

FlytheTail

Another strange one. For over an hour there was a hold on ORD departures due to weather but storms were 100 miles away.

As another aside, received email at 11pm last night that my 3pm flight was delayed due to late flight crew. UA, what a mess.

bmwe92fan

UA is a mess. My last four originating flights on UA have all been cancelled due to "ATC Issues" or some other "lie" - in quotes only bc they can legally get away with it... And for all the apologists yes, I know it's a lie because Delta, American, and Jetblue were all able to continue normal operations on the SAME routes - without interruption - on the SAME day. UA just decided to take my plane and use it somewhere else - fine, but don't lie to me...

Just for laughs I decided to take screen shots of my last flight from EWR - this delay reason was so bad that the GA came on the PA apoligized - and then said that the crew on my flight had decided they needed a break and was eating their dinner on the plane - and we would board when they were done and ready!

He was as increduluous as I was - UA posted a delay on the flight for the following reason "Delayed due to operational difficulties". We boarded 10 minutes after scheduled departure time... While we are sittin on the plane I noticed that UA revised the status on the mobile App and said WE DEPARTED ON TIME!. And this is how it remained - we didnt depart on time they lied and changed the system. I have screen shots of it all - but the truth is I now know there is nothing they won't do - lie, deceive, revise history - whatever it takes - to make themselves look good...

It's amazing how low they have sunk in the past 18 months!

Here's the screenshot sitting at the gate:



Here's the screenshot sitting on plane - before we even head to runway...



How can this be explained away?

Loren Pechtel

this

tom911

Look at flightstats.com, though, and you'll see the bulk of flight arrivals that have been cancelled at SFO since 0600 today are EM2s. The first arrival into SFO that didn't make it was from Chico scheduled for 0732, and then the rest of the day there are EM2 flights that were also cancelled coming in from Santa Barbara (0854 arr), Monterey (1203 arr), Fresno (1302 arr), Redding (1502 arr), Sacramento (1759 arr), Santa Barbara (1802 arr), San Luis Obispo (2129 arr) and Arcata (2145 arr). There's also a couple CRJ arrivals cancelled. Would any of those earlier flights been your aircraft?

mduell

The construction, with or without additional factors like weather, can lead to capacity constraints causing the FAA to impose delay programs.

This is not how ATC delay programs work in the US under Collaborative Decision Making! The FAA does not tell the carriers to cancel flights, it allocates them slots on a ration by schedule basis. And when it does that, it posts the program notices the carriers get (but not the slot assignments/EDCTs) on OIS.

Given the way delay programs work under the FAA's CDM model, this is completely irrelevant and not indicative of anything.