Jan 1, 2014, 9:23 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
•The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
•For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
•Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
•The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
•For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
•Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Sep 16, 2014, 3:49 pm
#826
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
Just priced my first award travel over the phone utilizing a stop over and open jaw. I was looking for insight and opinions to see if you folks would do anything differently.
MCO - FRA layover FRA - CPH (stopover)
CPH - LHR (destination)
we also plan to visit Paris and Madrid
MRS - FRA layover FRA - MCO
60k points and $160 in taxes, would you do anything differently?
On another note, Im hoping to book with my girlfriend who also has just over 60k points in her account. When booking over the phone and flying on United partners, is there any way to make sure we are seated together, do you pick seats, or is it by chance? With the above itinerary we would be flying Lufthansa and Scandinavian Airlines.
MCO - FRA layover FRA - CPH (stopover)
CPH - LHR (destination)
we also plan to visit Paris and Madrid
MRS - FRA layover FRA - MCO
60k points and $160 in taxes, would you do anything differently?
On another note, Im hoping to book with my girlfriend who also has just over 60k points in her account. When booking over the phone and flying on United partners, is there any way to make sure we are seated together, do you pick seats, or is it by chance? With the above itinerary we would be flying Lufthansa and Scandinavian Airlines.
Sep 17, 2014, 4:52 pm
#827
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York NY
Programs: UA Gold, CO Plat, CO Million Miler
Posts: 2,617
Today, I called back to see if I could in fact change the EWR outgoing flight to LGA at the more convenient time. THe agent came back on after spending about 5 minutes with whatever her support team is and said that I could but there would be a $25 charge. I said that I'm a Gold and there was no change in origin in destination in the overall RT award, just the airport and flight change. SHe said she understood but said the charge was for a "change in itinerary." I told her that I would consider it and hung up after thanking her.
Was she correct that a "change in itinerary" (ie. SFO-EWR-YYZ-ATH changed to SFO-EWR.... LGA-YYZ-ATH) should trigger a $25 charge?
Sep 17, 2014, 9:35 pm
#828
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Radisson Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 3,623
Just priced my first award travel over the phone utilizing a stop over and open jaw. I was looking for insight and opinions to see if you folks would do anything differently.
MCO - FRA layover FRA - CPH (stopover)
CPH - LHR (destination)
we also plan to visit Paris and Madrid
MRS - FRA layover FRA - MCO
60k points and $160 in taxes, would you do anything differently?
On another note, Im hoping to book with my girlfriend who also has just over 60k points in her account. When booking over the phone and flying on United partners, is there any way to make sure we are seated together, do you pick seats, or is it by chance? With the above itinerary we would be flying Lufthansa and Scandinavian Airlines.
MCO - FRA layover FRA - CPH (stopover)
CPH - LHR (destination)
we also plan to visit Paris and Madrid
MRS - FRA layover FRA - MCO
60k points and $160 in taxes, would you do anything differently?
On another note, Im hoping to book with my girlfriend who also has just over 60k points in her account. When booking over the phone and flying on United partners, is there any way to make sure we are seated together, do you pick seats, or is it by chance? With the above itinerary we would be flying Lufthansa and Scandinavian Airlines.
For example, you could maybe fly into FRA at 11:25 a.m., spend 22 hours and 50 minutes there. Next day fly FRA to MUC at 10:15 a.m., arriving at 11:10 a.m. Spend 23 hours and 55 minutes in Munich, then fly to Copenhagen at 11:05 a.m.
A 23 hour and 55 minute layover in a desirable city is almost the Holy Grail of award booking.
Last edited by jphripjah; Sep 17, 2014 at 9:44 pm
Sep 17, 2014, 10:00 pm
#829
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: AMEX PLT, AA PPro, Spire AMB
Posts: 1,617
I believe LH tickets in award economy through United does not get free seat selection...at least not this far in advance.
Sep 17, 2014, 11:25 pm
#830
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
Sep 18, 2014, 1:31 am
#831
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 54
Hi all,
You guys may have recall me from previous post. I'm indecisive and have made many changes to my itinerary. I've finally have things set. I've called and tried to book my first award flight. I didn't get everything I wanted. Here's my ideal itinerary
DFW - YYZ
YYZ - VIE
VIE - WAW Layover
WAW - PRG Layover
PRG - ZRH Layover
ZRH - FLR Destination
DUB - CPH (Attempted Open Jaw)
CPH - TXL Layover
TXL - ZRH Stopover
ZRH - EWR Destination
EWR - DFW
I did the recommended way and book something online, then call in to add my segments. The agent was able to add the segment up to ZRH-FLR. He said that I must book the DUB-CPH-TXL-ZRH as a separate itinerary. I understand that the reason is probably that I cannot combine open jaw with a stopover. But the wiki mentioned that some have had success with it. Furthermore, I did a test case for a "simpler" itinerary: DFW-VIE DUB-ZRH-DFW, that one actually got priced online. It has the same stopover at the open jaw.
The question is, should I do a HUACA? What are my chances of success? Has anyone have success lately with open jaw at stopover?
You guys may have recall me from previous post. I'm indecisive and have made many changes to my itinerary. I've finally have things set. I've called and tried to book my first award flight. I didn't get everything I wanted. Here's my ideal itinerary
DFW - YYZ
YYZ - VIE
VIE - WAW Layover
WAW - PRG Layover
PRG - ZRH Layover
ZRH - FLR Destination
DUB - CPH (Attempted Open Jaw)
CPH - TXL Layover
TXL - ZRH Stopover
ZRH - EWR Destination
EWR - DFW
I did the recommended way and book something online, then call in to add my segments. The agent was able to add the segment up to ZRH-FLR. He said that I must book the DUB-CPH-TXL-ZRH as a separate itinerary. I understand that the reason is probably that I cannot combine open jaw with a stopover. But the wiki mentioned that some have had success with it. Furthermore, I did a test case for a "simpler" itinerary: DFW-VIE DUB-ZRH-DFW, that one actually got priced online. It has the same stopover at the open jaw.
The question is, should I do a HUACA? What are my chances of success? Has anyone have success lately with open jaw at stopover?
Sep 18, 2014, 7:39 am
#832
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, UA Platinum, Alaksa MVP 75K, Air Berlin Gold, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,389
Hi all,
You guys may have recall me from previous post. I'm indecisive and have made many changes to my itinerary. I've finally have things set. I've called and tried to book my first award flight. I didn't get everything I wanted. Here's my ideal itinerary
DFW - YYZ
YYZ - VIE
VIE - WAW Layover
WAW - PRG Layover
PRG - ZRH Layover
ZRH - FLR Destination
DUB - CPH (Attempted Open Jaw)
CPH - TXL Layover
TXL - ZRH Stopover
ZRH - EWR Destination
EWR - DFW
I did the recommended way and book something online, then call in to add my segments. The agent was able to add the segment up to ZRH-FLR. He said that I must book the DUB-CPH-TXL-ZRH as a separate itinerary. I understand that the reason is probably that I cannot combine open jaw with a stopover. But the wiki mentioned that some have had success with it. Furthermore, I did a test case for a "simpler" itinerary: DFW-VIE DUB-ZRH-DFW, that one actually got priced online. It has the same stopover at the open jaw.
The question is, should I do a HUACA? What are my chances of success? Has anyone have success lately with open jaw at stopover?
You guys may have recall me from previous post. I'm indecisive and have made many changes to my itinerary. I've finally have things set. I've called and tried to book my first award flight. I didn't get everything I wanted. Here's my ideal itinerary
DFW - YYZ
YYZ - VIE
VIE - WAW Layover
WAW - PRG Layover
PRG - ZRH Layover
ZRH - FLR Destination
DUB - CPH (Attempted Open Jaw)
CPH - TXL Layover
TXL - ZRH Stopover
ZRH - EWR Destination
EWR - DFW
I did the recommended way and book something online, then call in to add my segments. The agent was able to add the segment up to ZRH-FLR. He said that I must book the DUB-CPH-TXL-ZRH as a separate itinerary. I understand that the reason is probably that I cannot combine open jaw with a stopover. But the wiki mentioned that some have had success with it. Furthermore, I did a test case for a "simpler" itinerary: DFW-VIE DUB-ZRH-DFW, that one actually got priced online. It has the same stopover at the open jaw.
The question is, should I do a HUACA? What are my chances of success? Has anyone have success lately with open jaw at stopover?
Last edited by weirdlyndon; Sep 18, 2014 at 7:40 am Reason: typo
Sep 18, 2014, 10:00 am
#833
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
Sep 18, 2014, 10:05 am
#834
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
I would try to squeeze in a 22+ hour layover in AMS or MUC before or after the first FRA layover, if possible. I'm greedy though, I like to max these things out.
For example, you could maybe fly into FRA at 11:25 a.m., spend 22 hours and 50 minutes there. Next day fly FRA to MUC at 10:15 a.m., arriving at 11:10 a.m. Spend 23 hours and 55 minutes in Munich, then fly to Copenhagen at 11:05 a.m.
A 23 hour and 55 minute layover in a desirable city is almost the Holy Grail of award booking.
For example, you could maybe fly into FRA at 11:25 a.m., spend 22 hours and 50 minutes there. Next day fly FRA to MUC at 10:15 a.m., arriving at 11:10 a.m. Spend 23 hours and 55 minutes in Munich, then fly to Copenhagen at 11:05 a.m.
A 23 hour and 55 minute layover in a desirable city is almost the Holy Grail of award booking.
Sep 18, 2014, 10:44 am
#835
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 54
DFW-YYZ-VIE
VIE-WAW
WAW-PRG-ZRH
ZRH-FLR
ZRH-EWR-DFW
It gives the impression that I'm stopping in ZRH. I have read the wiki the best that I could. But I'm still new at this. I thought we get one stopover and two open jaws. DFW-YYZ-VIE (layover) - WAW (layover) - PRG (layover) - ZRH (layover) - FLR (Destination) Then DUB (open jaw) - CPH (layover) - TXL (layover) - ZRH (stopover) - DFW
My itinerary would have 1 destination, 1 open jaw, and 1 stopover. The only reason I got for it being rejected is that it has too many segments. As far as I know, there's no limit to connection from CONUS to EU.
Sep 18, 2014, 10:46 am
#836
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York NY
Programs: UA Gold, CO Plat, CO Million Miler
Posts: 2,617
I hadn't even though of that, thank you. I was able to find a route arriving in AMS at 2:05pm on the 29th and departing at 1:55pm on the 30th. But with the added taxes of 65.90 and another night at an airbnb, I think we are going to pass up the offer. A little disappointed to know we might not max out our points but on this trip I think it might be more trouble than its worth.
Sep 18, 2014, 11:40 am
#837
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
I'm not going to argue with you, I get really tired of that. Suggest you read the wiki more carefully. That is not a legal itinerary the way you have it listed.
Sep 18, 2014, 1:06 pm
#838
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,855
... I thought we get one stopover and two open jaws. DFW-YYZ-VIE (layover) - WAW (layover) - PRG (layover) - ZRH (layover) - FLR (Destination) Then DUB (open jaw) - CPH (layover) - TXL (layover) - ZRH (stopover) - DFW
My itinerary would have 1 destination, 1 open jaw, and 1 stopover. The only reason I got for it being rejected is that it has too many segments. As far as I know, there's no limit to connection from CONUS to EU.
My itinerary would have 1 destination, 1 open jaw, and 1 stopover. The only reason I got for it being rejected is that it has too many segments. As far as I know, there's no limit to connection from CONUS to EU.
Potential misunderstanding --- OJ must be in conjunction with origin, destination (and some dispute on this -- stopover). OJ automatically create a stopover if not in conjunction with original or destination. OJ are not independent of the other itin pieces as you are constructing it.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 18, 2014 at 1:15 pm Reason: grammer
Sep 18, 2014, 1:37 pm
#839
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 54
Kacee is correct, this is not a legal award itin.
Potential misunderstanding --- OJ must be in conjunction with origin, destination (and some dispute on this -- stopover). OJ automatically create a stopover if not in conjunction with original or destination. OJ are not independent of the other itin pieces as you are constructing it.
Potential misunderstanding --- OJ must be in conjunction with origin, destination (and some dispute on this -- stopover). OJ automatically create a stopover if not in conjunction with original or destination. OJ are not independent of the other itin pieces as you are constructing it.
DFW-YYZ-VIE (layover) - WAW (layover) - PRG (layover) - ZRH (layover) - FLR (destination) DUB (OJ) - ZRH (stopover) - EWR - DFW.
This would also explain why this simple itinerary priced out on the website:
DFW-YYZ-VIE (destination) DUB (OJ) - ZRH (stopover) - DFW
Thank you for pointing this out! I really appreciated that.
Sep 18, 2014, 1:44 pm
#840
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
The crucial piece is that OJ must be in conjunction with origin, destination, or (possibly stopover). I thought connections were counted as such. If my understanding is now correct, would my itinerary have more possibility of being legal if I close the loop by doing this?
DFW-YYZ-VIE (layover) - WAW (layover) - PRG (layover) - ZRH (layover) - FLR (destination) DUB (OJ) - ZRH (stopover) - EWR - DFW.
DFW-YYZ-VIE (layover) - WAW (layover) - PRG (layover) - ZRH (layover) - FLR (destination) DUB (OJ) - ZRH (stopover) - EWR - DFW.
Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.