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Egyptian Pyramids and Kenyan Safari - *A C class on OS, MS, and LX.

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Old Aug 18, 2009, 8:06 am
  #1  
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Egyptian Pyramids and Kenyan Safari - *A C class on OS, MS, and LX.

When the Fairmont Friends and Family rate came about earlier this year, I looked into many of their resorts and found an unbeatable rate at the Fairmont Masai Mara Safari Club in Kenya. With my other half, we decided to go for a bit of safari. Then two months beforehand, my boss and her other half asked if they could tag along as well. When I explained about the special rate, she went to the Fairmont site and decided she wanted to go to the new Fairmont Zanzibar for a week also. My partner decided we had to go to Cairo as well. So, what started as a week in Kenya ended up being two couples travelling all over Africa! We used *A miles to fly on a C class award. My boss’s routing was VCE-VIE-CAI-DAR-ZNZ-NBO-Ngerende-NBO-ZRH-VCE, and my routing was VCE-VIE-CAI-LXR-CAI-NBO-Ngerende-NBO-ZRH-VCE.

Austrian Airlines 528 VCE-VIE
805am – 920am
Dash 8

I did OLCI the day before and had no problems at all getting the desired seats for this first flight and the connecting flight in VIE to CAI. We boarded on-time, zero problems, took off and a light breakfast was served by the friendly flight attendants from Tyrolean Airways. Then in no time, we were at the airport in Vienna. This is the last mention of a positive international flight on a scheduled carrier for the rest of the trip. The rest of the flights varied from hellish to downright cruel.

Austrian Airlines 863 VIE-CAI
10:35am – 3:10pm
A320
We made our way over to the gate for the flight to CAI. I had watched the video on the Austrian website about the Premium Service cabins and their offerings. It all looked quite nice. But to my surprise when we went through security we were met by a woman with a mobile kiosk who advised us that the A320 with Premium Service would not be flying the route today and instead we had a regular intra-European A320. She handed us each a voucher for EUR100 for a future OS-only flight and told us to sign the waiver or receive no compensation at all. She was rather rude and her English was very bad. I asked to speak to the supervisor. A very nice young man, Thomas, came over and introduced himself as the Flight Manager. He explained that the flight was heavily overbooked and the Premium Service A320 had fewer seats in Y and the regular A320 had much more, so this was the reason for the substitution. As there were only 6 pax in C class, they decided to swap aircraft. Grrrrr…
Upon boarding we were greeted by the FA’s who apologised for the aircraft swap and said they would do whatever was necessary to make us comfortable. Needless to say with a 4 hour flight on an intra-EU C class seat, my comfort was going to be limited. The FA’s did not do pre-flight drinks or offer anything at all. However, I must say that I found the food offerings to be nice. First there were the hot towels served on a silver tray followed by interesting cocktails made with vodka. I selected the raspberry cocktail and it was very good. There was also a lime cocktail that my partner had and remarked it was delicious. Next we had Arabian Mezze consisting of 5 small dishes offering hummous, tabouleh, baba ghannoush, tzatziki and smoked perch with a tomato chutney. The main course was a choice between Filet Mignon with sauteed vegetables, Grilled Chicken Breast with lemon sauce and capers, and Eggplant Moussaka. Finally, the desserts were 3 different interpretations of baklava. Each one made with different nuts and in different forms. Very good. We were given Austrian Airlines SkySpa amenity kits and the FAs really went out of their way to make sure our glasses were never empty, but the seats were horrible and the IFE was non-existent. Ok, yes, those stupid practical joke tv show programs were on the overhead monitors, but how many times can you really laugh at a naked jogger or a nun who loudly farts in public? Grrrrrrrr..
We arrived into Cairo’s new Terminal 3. Ok, first impression: How can a terminal open for less than 2 months be so filthy in such a short time? Globs of gum stuck on to the floor and ground in. Barely working air conditioning (except on the jetway. It worked great there.)
Passport Control was madness as there were only 5 lanes open and at least 500 people crammed into the area. Hot, sweaty, and the aroma that can only be described as “uniquely Cairo” greeted us to Egypt.
Luckily, as we descended the escalator into the baggage claim area, we saw our last name on a piece of paper and a rather handsome, nice fellow warmly greeted us and helped us find our bags and ultimately escort us out of the baggage hall and into the oppressively hot, yet dry, heat of the summer Egyptian sun.

Last edited by TravellinHusker; Aug 18, 2009 at 8:41 am
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 8:07 am
  #2  
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Egyptair 351 CAI-LXR
8:00am – 9:00am
E170
We had made arrangements for a day trip to Luxor. I really wish we had stayed there longer. Cairo is a filthy, nasty, disgusting place while Luxor is really quite beautiful and interesting, not to mention significantly cleaner and friendlier.
Egyptair does not offer OLCI, so we just arrived at the Domestic Departures area of Terminal 3 about an hour beforehand. I had already called MS locally to request seat assignments and those were honoured at check-in. I had also booked the flights on the MS Egyptian website to get the super-low fare. The agent at the Business Class counter did not ask to see the credit card used nor were there any problems at all. We didn’t have to wait to get our boarding passes and our LH M&M numbers were easily added. We were issued an invitation to have 2 hot drinks provided by the coffee shop on the second level, but to my surprise, the new domestic Egyptair Business Class Lounge was open. It is just about 10 metres past the coffee shop on the left. Funny enough, there were 5 pax in the lounge with 6 workers. Not sure why they need six workers for a place that holds less than 25 people, but the service provided was good. They do offer fresh espresso courtesy of Lavazza and the selection of pastries was decent enough. Our flight was called and we walked to our bus-gate. This was my first time flying on an E170. It was a nice ride. Again, completely overstaffed with 4 flight attendants, MS security, and an extra pilot. I asked about that and was told that they always have an extra pilot on all MS flights regardless of length or size of plane as well as at least one security staff member. Ok, so less than 70 pax and 8 MS employees working. Seems like a waste of money to me.
Flight took off on time and quickly thereafter 2 FA’s passed through the cabin and offered a choice of juices, water, or soda. I gladly took a glass of guava juice.
Then a few minutes later the other 2 FA’s passed through offering coffee or tea. Before I could even stir the sugar into the coffee, we were landing. As we taxied to the tarmac, I saw the infamous Air Memphis DC9 boarding passengers. I said a silent prayer for their safe flight. That bird looked rickety and worn out.

Egyptair 378 LXR-CAI
6:10pm – 7:10pm
E170
Our return flight was pretty much the same. Check-in was very fast and we were issued vouchers for a free drink at the café. The voucher wasn’t good for San Pellegrino water, but anything else. Luxor’s domestic departures area consists of 2 gates, a curio shop, “duty free” and a little café. Boarding started on time and we took off for Cairo. Again, juice/soda/water first, followed by coffee or tea. Landing was smooth and the bus quickly took us to the terminal.
Overall, these flights were just fine. The planes are clean, fast, and comfortable. MS did a better job than I expected.
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 11:39 am
  #3  
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I'm eager to read about your Kenyan Safari and how the Farimonts were.
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 6:52 pm
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Originally Posted by TravellinHusker
Cairo is a filthy, nasty, disgusting place
It's true that it's filthy, but I have to say I really like it. An underrated city I reckon - it's enjoyable and there are hidden treasures to be found provided you don't let the filth and chaos and overcrowding get you down (you could say the same thing about New York City, after all...)
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 1:21 am
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Thanks for the trip report. I'm looking forward to the rest.

Originally Posted by mad_atta
It's true that it's filthy, but I have to say I really like it. An underrated city I reckon - it's enjoyable and there are hidden treasures to be found provided you don't let the filth and chaos and overcrowding get you down (you could say the same thing about New York City, after all...)
A very big plus one.

I think Cairo is a truly amazing city. I would say it is in my top three cites after having visited almost 50 countries.

Each to there own I guess.

Last edited by camsean; Aug 19, 2009 at 7:46 am
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 2:18 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by mad_atta
It's true that it's filthy, but I have to say I really like it. An underrated city I reckon - it's enjoyable and there are hidden treasures to be found provided you don't let the filth and chaos and overcrowding get you down (you could say the same thing about New York City, after all...)
Yes, perhaps to each their own. This is my 3rd time there. The 1st was a convention. The 2nd was for tourism because I didn't get the chance the first time to see anything. The 3rd was my other half's choice and I regret it. I've travelled the world extensively and I've never been to a more filthy and disgusting place with the absolute rudest and horrible people on the planet. Having said that, Luxor was the exact opposite with lovely people and great scenery. And I am no fan of NYC, but to say that the pollution and overcrowding of NYC is comparable to Cairo is laughable and a farce. I've yet to see a city as filthy as Cairo. Nairobi was considerably cleaner. I've been in South African townships and the slums of Mexico City that were spotless compared to the nicest areas of Cairo.
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 2:55 am
  #7  
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Egyptair 849 CAI-NBO
10:45pm – 3:45am
Now, I knew it was too good to be true for MS to actually be a decent airline. I had seen online that our flight was an A320 at the time of booking. On the A320s, C class starts at row 8. I had reserved seats 8H and 8K. At check-in we were issued seats 3H and 3K. I asked why the row numbers were so different. The check-in agent had no clue. Then he said it looked like there was an aircraft swap from A320 to A321. I thought for a minute that this was a good thing. Oh, how wrong I was. We went to the gate and saw the A321 sitting there. About 30 minutes before takeoff we boarded. Uggghhh.. Nasty, filthy, old A321. C class had the same legroom as Y. And it was 3 and 3 with the middle seat blocked, unlike the A320s or 737-800s which are 2-2 just like US domestic F class. Our flight attendant was something out of the 1970s with a massive fake red bouffant with a large platinum blonde stripe right down the middle. She was wearing so much makeup, I am surprised that in the Egyptian heat, it didn’t melt right off. So, we sat and sat and sat and sat. No information from the cockpit at all.

Finally 2 hours after boarding, I asked one of the FA’s what the delay was and was told that air traffic at CAI was very heavy. At 1215am? Seriously? The next flight attendant I asked said that the fuel indicator said that there was a problem with the type of fuel in the plane and the pilot was working on the problem. Finally, we were all told to disembark the aircraft, but again without any explanation what was happening. MS delivered very old pizza and leftover sandwiches to the passengers, but there wasn’t enough food for everyone to get something. I could hear the engines for the plane running very loud and high while still at the gate. The station manager for MS at NBO was one of the other C class passengers and he finally offered an explanation to a few of us. Simply put, with the change of aircraft, someone made a mistake and loaded too much fuel. With the completely full plane, luggage, and cargo, the plane was too heavy to take off. So, the pilot was burning fuel while we were sitting at the gate and planning a different route, perhaps stopping in Luxor to refuel before continuing to NBO. Needless to say, I was a bit nervous when we finally pushed back. We lifted off smoothly and turned to the south. The airshow map gave our direction as headed directly to Luxor. But we never descended. Then, we headed further southwest towards Abu Simbel, finally backtracking to Khartoum, on to Addis Ababa, and finally Nairobi. This was explained to us by the station manager as cautionary in case we needed fuel, the pilot could easily stop and refuel the plane. We arrived almost 3 ½ hours late, but at least we arrived. As for the onboard service, as soon as we took off, we were offered a choice of beef, chicken, or fish. I selected the beef as did my companion. It arrived and was actually quite good. A nice piece of filet covered with a mushroom sauce, a side of potatoes au gratin and a medley of steamed vegetables. When my companion was served, the FA advised that the beef had run out, but the pilot wasn’t hungry and offered to have his meal served instead. It was also a filet but much bigger and on top was blue cheese with the same mushroom sauce. That was a nice thing for the pilot to do.

Arrival into NBO is nothing short of culture shock, but we managed to snake our way through the Health Clinic line (yes, they were actively asking for all yellow fever cards and swine flu information) and then the visa line. It seemed to take forever for the visas to get processed as each one has to be written by hand. Finally, we were able to go down the escalators to the baggage claim area where our bags were already waiting. I can see how that could be dangerous as bags come out much faster than people can get through immigrations. It just screams “STEAL MY LUGGAGE PLEASE!!!”

Thanks to another FTer who lives in NBO, we had connections for a trusted car service to take us where we needed to go. As my boss and her boyfriend had arrived the evening before into NBO, they spent one night at The Norfolk Hotel, one of the Fairmont properties. By the time my companion and I arrived at their hotel, it was almost 8am. Traffic in NBO is HORRIBLE. Good grief! The staff at this hotel are simply wonderful. They were very welcoming to us even knowing we wouldn’t be staying there, only eating breakfast, having a shower and change of clothes before leaving for the airport again. My boss and her other half met us and we went to the front porch for breakfast. Everything is just very colonial and stately. The food was spectacular. The wait staff were eager to please, and the location is so special. We ate to our hearts’ content and then dragged our tired butts to my boss’s room to have a shower and change of clothes. Our driver met us precisely when he said he would and we started our journey to Nairobi-Wilson Airport.

We had booked our flights to Masai-Ngerende through AirKenya. I had spoken to their staff more than a few times so it was very interesting to finally meet them face-to-face. Our luggage was way overweight as we knew it would, but the AirKenya overweight baggage charge is quite reasonable at Ksh200 (less than EUR2.00) per kilo. In the end, the total roundtrip cost for the luggage was less than EUR50. We were given coloured plastic boarding cards and special luggage tags noting the Fairmont Masai Mara name on them. Finally, boarding was called and we got on the Dash 7 aircraft that holds 50 passengers, but that day there were only 23 passengers. We had our pick of seats, ala Southwest, and the one member of the flight crew came through with a little basket of plastic wrapped mints. Two minutes later, we were taking off to the west toward the Fairmont Masai Mara. Just about 45 minutes after takeoff, we came in at the steepest descent I’ve ever felt and at the last minute, leveled out for as smooth of a landing is possible for a dirt landing strip. After the very short taxi to the “tarmac”, the doors were opened and at the bottom of the stairs was Alice from the Fairmont Masai Mara Safari Club with a HUGE Masai smile. We quickly had our luggage off the plane and the jeep driver, Wilson was able to help us load everything. We headed down a dirt road and just 5 minutes later, we were at the front gates of the Safari Club. WOW! That about sums it all up. WOW! Had to say it again. Every member of the staff just ooooozes genuine hospitality and wants nothing more than to see you enjoying all the Safari Club has to offer. The food is plentiful, delicious, and inventive. The service is gracious. The safaris are adventurous and complete. The tents are luxurious and very comfortable. The club grounds are immaculate, lush, and inviting. I have only 1 complaint, the internet is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. It only works in the library and there is just the one line, so if there are more than 2 people on computers at the same time, it is painfully slow. But, hey, safari in Kenya, who needs lightning fast internet? Each day starts pretty much the same with a wake-up call from your personal tent attendant at 6am. He brings your choice of coffee, tea, or hot chocolate to the tent and gently calls out for you to wake up. At 630am, you are expected to be at the front of the main lodge where your safari driver will be waiting for you. The morning drive lasts about 2 hours and is the best drive for seeing the big cats in action. They are often still hunting, eating, playing, or mating in the early morning. Then back to the Safari Club for the breakfast. Every morning there are made-to-order omelettes, fresh waffles and pancakes, toast, pastries, muffins, baked beans, bacon, sausages, gratinated tomatoes, hash browns, various cereals, fresh cut fruits, cold cuts, cheeses, juices, etc… It’s really a massive spread.

Here are some photos of our plane and another AirKenya plane that landed just after us at the Mara-Ngerende airfield.

http://share.shutterfly.com/share/re...94f6a9ae49b837

From breakfast time until 330pm you are free to do as you please. There is a swimming pool or you can go on a safari walk or as I did, sleep. The tents are on the banks of the Mara river. Literally, directly under each tent is a river swarming with huge crocodiles and massive hippos. No worries. The banks down to the river are quite steep and impenetrable by the crocs or hippos. There is even a sort of “beach” called Hippo Hide where large numbers of hippos congregate throughout the day and night to sun themselves and hang out. I never had a problem sleeping, but my boss was absolutely livid the first night. She could hear the hippos making their grunting noises all night long and it bothered her. Thankfully I had taken a few extra pairs of earplugs from the Austrian flight to Cairo and gave those to her. She was able to sleep peacefully from then on. Lunch is served buffet style outside along the river and near the pool. There was always a nice selection of cold salads and cheeses along with freshly grilled meat and hot sides. Almost always there was a curry of some sort as well as fish. If something didn’t catch your fancy, a quick word to one of the chefs or your waiter was all it took to get something that you preferred. You are assigned the same waiter for all meals. Our waiter was Vincent. He’s been at this property for 14 years and he goes WAY out of his way to make sure you are satisfied. Dinner is served two ways: buffet and fixed menu. During our week there, we had fixed menu twice and buffet the other 5 times. The food quality is very high regardless if it is buffet or fixed menu. The one thing that is at every lunch and dinner is soup. They make their soups fresh every day. I must say, I like soup, but by no means am I a soup aficionado. However, the soup at every meal was absolutely OUSTANDING! And sometimes very creative. One night we had Bacon Pea Soup served Cappuccino Style. And sure enough, there was the soup with creamy foam on top. But it was DELICIOUS. Another soup served at lunch was Radicchio and Grilled Fennel. Very inventive and clever choice between the bitter radicchio and the sweet fennel. It made for a delicious soup. It was quite clear that none of this soup came from a can and certainly wasn’t just a creative way to use up yesterday’s leftovers.

The evening drives leave at 330pm and last until about 730pm. This drive was interesting but usually quite hot and dusty. In the afternoon, you’ll see more of the topis, gazelles, zebras, wildebeests, and hyenas. The big cats, elephants, and giraffes are hiding in the trees to escape the heat. However, as the sun starts to set, it cools off quickly and some of the animals come out to play. Upon arrival at the Safari Club, Leah would greet each person with a HUGE grin and a plate of warm, scented washcloths. The fun of it is comparing with everyone else just how much dirt and grime you can clean off with one washcloth. It might sound kinda gross, but in fact it’s all part of the safari adventure.

Every evening, before dinner, one of the local Masai tribes brings their menfolk in traditional red dress to the Safari Club to do a traditional dance in the bar area. It always makes for an interesting and festive start to the evening meal.

We did sign up one day for the Hot Air Balloon Safari. It does cost quite a bit, but it was well worth it. It requires getting up at 430am, but the experience was absolutely amazing! The flight takes about 1 hour and the pilot landed the balloon about 500m from where breakfast had been set up for us. They brought out a long table with 12 chairs and 2 cooking stations: one for eggs as you like them, and the other for cold cereals, fruits, and pastries. Champagne was served for everyone and we had a wonderful breakfast under the rising African sun. Then, our driver Wilson, drove us to the see the migration of the wildebeest. Wow! What a sight! I can’t imagine counting how many there were, but I would put a bet down that it was in the millions! As they cross the Mara river, the crocodiles jump up and eat them. It’s definitely not for the faint of heart, but what an interesting and amazing show of nature!

The Fairmont Masai Mara Safari Club is an absolutely WONDERFUL place, not only because the facilities are first rate, but because the people are overwhelmingly genuine, honest, kind, and lovely. Leah, the woman at the front desk, cried when we left and asked us to promise to “come home” again. Kisses and hugs were easily given and received from all the staff. Edward the accountant ran over from his busy desk to shake hands and wish us a happy journey. Mary and Jonathon, two Masai who work at the Fairmont, gave us the most genuine hugs and well-wishes. I can’t tell you just how wonderful the staff of the Fairmont is.

Here is a link to a photo album with 82 pictures. The first few pictures are of the tent and you'll see some more pictures of the grounds of the Safari Club towards the end of the album. In the middle, are some random shots of animals and the Hot Air Balloon safari.

http://share.shutterfly.com/share/re...=8EZNGjNuzZMwo

We unfortunately had to leave and return to Nairobi. We reluctantly put our things into the safari jeep and went on the short drive to the airstrip. This time, we had a smaller Twin Otter 300 with seating for 19. The cockpit doors were open the entire time and we had open seating of course. It was a bit of a bumpy ride and we all felt a little queasy when we landed. I’ve included a few photos here. The first photo is the Safari Class Lounge at the Mara-Ngerende Airstrip. Photo 2 is the inside of the Safari Class Lounge. Photo 3 is the deluxe bathrooms. Photo 4 is the Duty Free Shopping Centre. Pictures 5 and 6 are our plane landing and taxiing, and the final photo is from my seat looking to the front of the plane while airborne.

http://share.shutterfly.com/share/re...2f2841c4d4a52e
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 7:52 am
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Originally Posted by TravellinHusker
Now, I knew it was too good to be true for MS to actually be a decent airline. ]
Do I sense a pattern with you and Egypt? I'm glad you seemed to enjoy Kenya.

If dirty cities are a problem, don't go to Dhaka or Maputo. I'd say both are much dirtier than Cairo, which I wouldn't consider particularly grubby.
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 8:33 am
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Originally Posted by camsean
Do I sense a pattern with you and Egypt? I'm glad you seemed to enjoy Kenya.

If dirty cities are a problem, don't go to Dhaka or Maputo. I'd say both are much dirtier than Cairo, which I wouldn't consider particularly grubby.
My comment about Egyptair was due to the fact I had read some rather negative and damning reports on FT. I decided to give them a shot. I wish I hadn't and instead gone nonstop from ZRH on LX or on TK with a stopover in IST. We were 4 people in total and all 4 of us have vowed never to set foot again in Cairo, perhaps the entire country of Egypt ever again. After 88 countries, I can say that it is perhaps the worst place on earth. There is no sense of humanity and a complete lack of kindness. The staff at the JW Marriott couldn't have been worse and their lackadaisical attitude towards everything was completely inexcusable. In fact, I complained to Customer Service and the reply I got said "As you know, we Egyptians are not good at following the rules, so it can be of no surprise we didn't meet your expectations." That is taken directly from the e-mail they sent me. The complete lack of communication from MS staff in CAI during the long delay was clearly wrong and no one was willing to be accountable for it. I see you are from Jakarta. I've never been to Jakarta, but I've been to Bali. While Denpasar is certainly not the sprawling metropolis of Jakarta, there is abject poverty which is widespread there. I did not see the pollution, unhygienic conditions, nor lack of respect for other that I did in Cairo. Most of all, I am a very open-minded, respectful man and I was continually insulted and offended at the treatment we received while in Cairo. Again, Luxor was a different story.
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 11:41 am
  #10  
 
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Originally Posted by TravellinHusker
Yes, perhaps to each their own. This is my 3rd time there. The 1st was a convention. The 2nd was for tourism because I didn't get the chance the first time to see anything. The 3rd was my other half's choice and I regret it. I've travelled the world extensively and I've never been to a more filthy and disgusting place with the absolute rudest and horrible people on the planet. Having said that, Luxor was the exact opposite with lovely people and great scenery. And I am no fan of NYC, but to say that the pollution and overcrowding of NYC is comparable to Cairo is laughable and a farce. I've yet to see a city as filthy as Cairo. Nairobi was considerably cleaner. I've been in South African townships and the slums of Mexico City that were spotless compared to the nicest areas of Cairo.
I do agree, each to their own, and I don't in any way mean to criticize you for your view. I know Cairo is not to many people's tastes, though when I was there I met a number of fascinating, friendly and genuine people along in the midst of the chaos / touts / scam artists that you expect to find in a big city like that.

Re the NYC comparison, having just spent the last week showing my parents around the city, I'd argue that the Midtown West/Times Square/Port Authority area in Manhattan actually *is* relatively comparable to Cairo in its levels of crowding, chaos and filth when the August crowds are at their peak. And I should know, I live there... Of course there are other parts of NYC that are havens of peace and relative cleanliness by comparison.

Anyway, thanks for the report, which I'm enjoying. The camps at the Masai Mara sound fabulous. I'm very envious that you got to see the wildebeasts and crocs interacting, that must have been an astonishing sight.
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Old Aug 20, 2009, 4:57 pm
  #11  
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Wow... I take it you're not fond of Egypt? Hehe. While it's dirty, crowded and hot, I absolutely LOVED Cairo. Perhaps it's because I was there with a friend whose family is from Cairo and we got the absolute royal treatment from his family? I dunno. I guess you will love and hate different places throughout the world based on perspective. Curious... have you ever been to India? One of these days I'll get myself to Africa for a safari.
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Old Aug 20, 2009, 11:56 pm
  #12  
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Originally Posted by azj
Wow... I take it you're not fond of Egypt? Hehe. While it's dirty, crowded and hot, I absolutely LOVED Cairo. Perhaps it's because I was there with a friend whose family is from Cairo and we got the absolute royal treatment from his family? I dunno. I guess you will love and hate different places throughout the world based on perspective. Curious... have you ever been to India? One of these days I'll get myself to Africa for a safari.
Hi azj..
Yes, I've been to India and certainly there are some comparisons between Cairo and Mumbai or Delhi. I still stand by my opinion that Cairo is the worst. There is redemption in parts of Mumbai and Delhi. I've yet to see anything redeeming about Cairo.
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Old Aug 21, 2009, 6:33 am
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by TravellinHusker
I've never been to Jakarta, but I've been to Bali. While Denpasar is certainly not the sprawling metropolis of Jakarta, there is abject poverty which is widespread there. I did not see the pollution, unhygienic conditions, nor lack of respect for other that I did in Cairo. Most of all, I am a very open-minded, respectful man and I was continually insulted and offended at the treatment we received while in Cairo. Again, Luxor was a different story.
Please don't misunderstand me. Your opinion is your opinion and that's fine. I guess I'm just suprised by such a strong negative reaction to a city I really like.

It sounds like your Cairo is more Dhaka, a place couldn't stand, couldn't wait to leave and never want to go back to.

As far as Jakarta goes, I'm not from here but have been living here for a few years. I would say it is dirtier than Cairo and far less interesting, so you might not want to add it to you list of must visit places
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Old Aug 21, 2009, 12:21 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by camsean
Please don't misunderstand me. Your opinion is your opinion and that's fine. I guess I'm just suprised by such a strong negative reaction to a city I really like.

It sounds like your Cairo is more Dhaka, a place couldn't stand, couldn't wait to leave and never want to go back to.

As far as Jakarta goes, I'm not from here but have been living here for a few years. I would say it is dirtier than Cairo and far less interesting, so you might not want to add it to you list of must visit places
I completely understand and respect that we have completely opposite opinions. In the same way you are surprised at my negative reaction, the simple fact that 4 open-minded, liberal, fun-loving, culturally aware history buffs have all vowed that after this trip to Cairo, we will never go back for many, many real reasons, and yet someone out there thinks this city is one of the top 3 in their list? It almost seems to me that we perhaps have seen 2 completely different cities. It makes me wonder if you only saw Cairo at night with sunglasses on!
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Old Aug 22, 2009, 11:27 am
  #15  
azj
 
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There was a lot about India that reminded me of Cairo. However, I wouldn't agree that Cairo was dirtier than any part of India that I visited. I think it's actually pretty wonderful that we as humans can see the world from different perspectives and are entitled to our very own opinions on the matter. After all, one mans treasure is another mans trash right?
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