milliganmi

Undoubtedly this is old stuff, but I'm new to this: attractive rates out there from mileage brokers (e.g. biztravels), but warnings that the airlines can bust you for illegally purchased award tickets. What's the real-world experience with this? Should I avoid them like the plague?

ContinentalFan

Welcome to FT!

Personally, I would definitely avoid them. I have never bought a ticket, but from the prices I have heard, you can sometimes do as well on an auction site--without the risks. Admittedly, this price comparison is now close to two years old. There is a risk. I don't think anyone could quantitate it for you. You have to make the call!

Ocn Vw 1K

milliganmi, welcome to FT! In addition to the above advice, our search feature turned up another recent thread on this with very similar cautionary advice see this link

milliganmi

Thanks to you both. What I'm picking up is a strong bias to stay within the system -- which fits my own instinct. What I don't find anywhere that I've looked is anything concrete, The airlines obviously want us to believe that this is a bad thing -- but does anything bad really happen? Myth is a powerful thing...

tom911

Look at this thread, involving a mileage award that was challenged by the airline upon check-in, and make up your own mind:

Award Ticket Fraud?

milliganmi

Thanks -- quite convincing! I'm slowly sorting out the difference between mileage brokers (e.g. executivetravelservice.com) and what claim to be bulk purchasers (e.g. accessfares.com). I'm guessing that I'm safe (other than the usual issues of a business's reliability) with a bulk purchaser/discounter although (again apologies for being a newbie here) the discussion threads seem very heavily oriented to fare deals direct from airlines. Any wisdom to offer me there? Thanks.

tom911

Will you accumulate miles on these discounters tickets? FT is all about points and miles, so you'll find we tend to use providers that offer those.

alexoster

There are millions of reward seats redeemed every year and when dealing with a professional mileage broker (i.e. L4L @ www.flyl4l.com who are the biggest out there) there is really NO risk.
And this is because it literally takes a magician behind the check-in counter to say that this particular seat was purchased through a broker.

Let alone the fact that airlines - despite all their efforts - never managed to make the selling of miles illegal simply because a person who rightfully earns miles (through flying or CC) should be able to use them however they see fit. This includes gifting them, redeeming them for friends AND selling them!

Imagine buying a camera in Best Buy and being told that you can only take pictures of yourself and for yourself??!!! Or that you cant sell the camera...

I've been using L4L for several years now and they are as good as it gets!

Ancien Maestro

Somewhat convoluted the science of identifying improper points purchased through a broker..

But buyer beward.. if you're doling out coin.. its best to see if the vendor has been approved to sell the products..

If not approved.. then there is always the risk of loss.

trooper

Note the very careful word choice there!

Sure, noone has been able (or possibly even seriously tried) to make selling miles illegal. (Given that illegal means in breach of law)

Pretty clear however that such activities are clearly stated in many (most? all?) programs as being in breach of the Terms and Conditions one has, by definition, agreed to when signing up for said program.

Right or wrong, fair or unfair if the program T's & C's say you can't sell the miles then using weasel words such as "but it isn't illegal" will hardly help the person who is refused carriage on an award identified as having been obtained by such a breach....

How likely that is to actually happen I have no idea.

Doesn't seem ethical, right or proper however (to me, YMMV of course) to AGREE to such conditions and then flout them.

Ancien Maestro

I agree with the T and C part..

Not only is the perception of grey areas.. but the fact that the purchasing miles practice is dangerous.. and a total loss to the consumer if caught.

Not really worth the risk to go "outside of the box" on this one..

Wiirachay

Don't do it. Just go to MileBuzz and Mileage Run to learn how to earn the miles for yourself.

Have you bought any dollar coins lately? How's your credit rating?

- Pat

Ancien Maestro

Agreed that FT is a great resource for legitimate ways of improving mile collections..

We all need to remember.. its not all about collecting as many miles as possible..

Its about being aware whats available, and FTers making a choice based on the information presented..

I personally don't jump at every available mile offer out there.. but based on my family's needs, certainly we've taken advantage of a few deals out there.. but a very small portion to the total availabie.

lin821

(underline mine)

Your reasoning sounds very similar to another FTer who's no longer with us. I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing "business" with your referenced broker. Maybe you should take a look at some threads he started and the discussion about risk:

Class action lawsuit against delta for prohibiting miles sale

Loyalmatch, sellingmiles.com, flyhub.com: has anyone used all three to sell miles

How do I get up to 5 million CONTINENTAL miles and AMEX points

I understand for someone who hasn't been caught to say there's no risk, but what would you say to someone who did get caught?

Often1

Carriers improve their data mining software constantly and likelihood of getting caught increases all the time. Getting caught has all kinds of bad consequences, not the least of which is that if someone who worked for me engaged in the practice got caught (and I learned of it) or someone with whom I do business got caught(and I learned of it), they would be done. Have found that the people who defraud on large important issues have typically engaged in petty stuff for a long time. Best way is to weed out the bad eggs early.