speaking the country's language
Nov 25, 2014, 7:50 am
#77
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Although, it does raise the question as to which the most widely (by landmass) spoken language is - Russia is the largest land mass, but with Canada, the US and Australia all in the top 5, it puts English ahead until you start looking at the slightly smaller countries and working it all out!
Nov 25, 2014, 9:19 am
#78
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Meh.
Pretty much everyone under 50 everywhere in the world speaks at least some English these days. At least everyone under 50 who is well off enough to fly internationally.
Within a generation this "problem" will more or less take care of itself.
Nothing wrong with learning languages. But realistically speaking, if you speak English, it's all you need for business. It's the international business language. When a German and an Italian transact business, they do in English.
I remember when I was in high school in the 80s and there was a panic about Japan taking over. Seemed like overnight there was a mad rush to learn Japanese. My high school offered it an elective my senior year. Now it's same OMG OMG OMG we all have to learn Chinese. And wasn't the USSR supposed to dominate the world too at some point and knowing Russian would be important? Yeah I seem to recall that argument made as well.
How'd all that work out?
Pretty much everyone under 50 everywhere in the world speaks at least some English these days. At least everyone under 50 who is well off enough to fly internationally.
Within a generation this "problem" will more or less take care of itself.
Nothing wrong with learning languages. But realistically speaking, if you speak English, it's all you need for business. It's the international business language. When a German and an Italian transact business, they do in English.
I remember when I was in high school in the 80s and there was a panic about Japan taking over. Seemed like overnight there was a mad rush to learn Japanese. My high school offered it an elective my senior year. Now it's same OMG OMG OMG we all have to learn Chinese. And wasn't the USSR supposed to dominate the world too at some point and knowing Russian would be important? Yeah I seem to recall that argument made as well.
How'd all that work out?
Nov 25, 2014, 1:31 pm
#79
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I see people trying to "speak the language" thinking it makes for a better trip. If you actually do speak the language, it works. If you bought a "Speak Klingon in 30 minutes" CD you're just making a fool of yourself. People in tourist areas expect to deal with language issues.
I live about half the time in Thailand and it's hilarious listening to some people who bought the book and listened to the tape.
I live about half the time in Thailand and it's hilarious listening to some people who bought the book and listened to the tape.
In my experience (and I haven't been to Thailand, or anywhere else in the Far East for that matter) making an effort with the language gets you brownie points with the locals. It doesn't matter if you're rubbish, it's still viewed more favourably than not trying at all.
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I have learned quite a bit of Thai and have found it has enhanced my visits greatly. Even when starting out, my limited ability was a great ice breaker.
The premise holds, it is just more difficult to get to that first level of learning for an American trying a tonal language. All languages are not equal.
In contrast, I did the RosettaStone thing for some German and it was much more successful for picking up rudimentary / polite language skills.
(The Thai version of RosettaStone was useless.)
Much more germane to the topic though, I do find pre-recorded announcements to have value in the gate area. Usually I am not a fan, but when there are expected language barriers there is no reason not to have some boilerplate verbiage play over the PA system at the gate.
Nov 25, 2014, 1:42 pm
#80
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Thai is difficult due to the tonal nature of the language. It is rare for someone to learn significant Thai from books or tapes. Having someone listen to and correct the tones of your speech is important.
The premise holds, it is just more difficult to get to that first level of learning for an American trying a tonal language. All languages are not equal.
In contrast, I did the RosettaStone thing for some German and it was much more successful for picking up rudimentary / polite language skills.
(The Thai version of RosettaStone was useless.
The premise holds, it is just more difficult to get to that first level of learning for an American trying a tonal language. All languages are not equal.
In contrast, I did the RosettaStone thing for some German and it was much more successful for picking up rudimentary / polite language skills.
(The Thai version of RosettaStone was useless.
The famous "New wood doesn't burn, does it"? line always helps. To the European ear, it is simply "my my my my, my?" Add in tones and vowel length, those are different words. ไมไม่ไม้ไม๋ไม๊
Nov 25, 2014, 1:57 pm
#81
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,755
[QUOTE=You want to go where?;23886269]
Yes, French's role is diminishing in importance. It used to the language of diplomacy, a role it now has to share. However, it still has a lot of speakers, and that number of speakers is growing not shrinking, unlike Russian or Japanese. It remains one of the major international languages and will be for some time to come because it is also widely spoken as a second language.
It isn't just number of speakers that makes a language important. Even though it now shares its dipomatic role with other languages, it remains one of the world's major diplomatic languages.
UN Languages: English, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, Chinese...and French.
EU Procedural Languages: English, German...and French.
It is one of the working languages of: OECD, NATO, ECOWAS, WTO, WIPO, WADA and FIFA.
All deliberations of rhe European Court of Justice are conducted in...French.
It is one of two official languages of the IOC.
It isn't dead yet - it isn't even sick.
French is passe.. that is simply a fact.
None of the institutions you mention - UN, EU, IOC etc..things are translated in French as a formality or as a procedurality. ALL Business and negotiations are done in English. Just because French appears on the list of the world bodies you mention, does not make it a vibrant and popular language. It has had its 15 minutes of fame and it is clearly over now.
Yes, French's role is diminishing in importance. It used to the language of diplomacy, a role it now has to share. However, it still has a lot of speakers, and that number of speakers is growing not shrinking, unlike Russian or Japanese. It remains one of the major international languages and will be for some time to come because it is also widely spoken as a second language.
It isn't just number of speakers that makes a language important. Even though it now shares its dipomatic role with other languages, it remains one of the world's major diplomatic languages.
UN Languages: English, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, Chinese...and French.
EU Procedural Languages: English, German...and French.
It is one of the working languages of: OECD, NATO, ECOWAS, WTO, WIPO, WADA and FIFA.
All deliberations of rhe European Court of Justice are conducted in...French.
It is one of two official languages of the IOC.
It isn't dead yet - it isn't even sick.
French is passe.. that is simply a fact.
None of the institutions you mention - UN, EU, IOC etc..things are translated in French as a formality or as a procedurality. ALL Business and negotiations are done in English. Just because French appears on the list of the world bodies you mention, does not make it a vibrant and popular language. It has had its 15 minutes of fame and it is clearly over now.
Nov 25, 2014, 2:01 pm
#82
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French is passe.. that is simply a fact.
None of the institutions you mention - UN, EU, IOC etc..things are translated in French as a formality or as a procedurality. ALL Business and negotiations are done in English. Just because French appears on the list of the world bodies you mention, does not make it a vibrant and popular language. It has had its 15 minutes of fame and it is clearly over now.
Nov 25, 2014, 2:29 pm
#83
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In addition to the tones, most speakers get the length of the vowel wrong. A word with a short clipped vowel means something different than the same word with a longer vowel.
The famous "New wood doesn't burn, does it"? line always helps. To the European ear, it is simply "my my my my, my?" Add in tones and vowel length, those are different words. ไมไม่ไม้ไม๋ไม๊
The famous "New wood doesn't burn, does it"? line always helps. To the European ear, it is simply "my my my my, my?" Add in tones and vowel length, those are different words. ไมไม่ไม้ไม๋ไม๊
I still think it is useful to attempt some very common words, even in the tourist areas. You will get some props for the attempt and even the most butchered "Kop Kuhn Krap" would be understood.
Anyway, I will be back in Thailand in just a couple of days and very much looking forward to some good food and great people.
Cheers.
Nov 25, 2014, 4:59 pm
#84
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French is hugely useful in Africa.
Had lots of difficulty with English in Russia. Even in StP. Of the 50+ countries I've been in, it was one of the toughest in terms of communication. And for sure the most surprising.
Sure I'd love to have good command of Russian, Portuguese, Arabic, Turkish, etc... will it payoff with my intl travel business-wise? Hardly. Practical to spend "a few weeks" on each? Not at all. Completely unrealistic expectation.
Had lots of difficulty with English in Russia. Even in StP. Of the 50+ countries I've been in, it was one of the toughest in terms of communication. And for sure the most surprising.
Sure I'd love to have good command of Russian, Portuguese, Arabic, Turkish, etc... will it payoff with my intl travel business-wise? Hardly. Practical to spend "a few weeks" on each? Not at all. Completely unrealistic expectation.
Nov 25, 2014, 7:59 pm
#85
Join Date: May 2004
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French is hugely useful in Africa.
Had lots of difficulty with English in Russia. Even in StP. Of the 50+ countries I've been in, it was one of the toughest in terms of communication. And for sure the most surprising.
Sure I'd love to have good command of Russian, Portuguese, Arabic, Turkish, etc... will it payoff with my intl travel business-wise? Hardly. Practical to spend "a few weeks" on each? Not at all. Completely unrealistic expectation.
Had lots of difficulty with English in Russia. Even in StP. Of the 50+ countries I've been in, it was one of the toughest in terms of communication. And for sure the most surprising.
Sure I'd love to have good command of Russian, Portuguese, Arabic, Turkish, etc... will it payoff with my intl travel business-wise? Hardly. Practical to spend "a few weeks" on each? Not at all. Completely unrealistic expectation.
For parents who are wondering what language they should start their kids on, I would argue that it almost doesn't matter if they are native English speakers, so long as they learn a second language in depth at an early age. Learning a second language when you are young rewires your brain to be more receptive to acquiring additional languages when you are older. So, what kids are really learning is the ability to acquire languages as much as they are learning the language itself.
Last edited by You want to go where?; Nov 25, 2014 at 8:10 pm
Nov 25, 2014, 10:44 pm
#86
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Nov 26, 2014, 6:28 am
#88
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"The bottom line is speaking only one language can be very inadequate nowadays for worldly travelers." Very true. I travel mainly for business, and am a native English speaker, but try to learn some rudiments of the language in each country I visit, just to be able to get around. The only language I really try to expand my knowledge of beyond the rudiments is French. I find that in the EU at least, most business can be conducted between French and English. I wish I had paid more attention to it when I was young.
Nov 26, 2014, 8:37 am
#89
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If you're confused about the use of the word "arrogantly", the word may be valid because of how French is used these days. If you have a US passport you'll see that it is in English and French. Do you know why? There is a treaty that says all passports will be in the native language plus either English or French. Why French? Because the French government demanded it and threatened to block the treaty. Nearly all countries that don't have English as the local language choose English as the second passport language. Arrogance in the French government is the only reason French is an official language in EU or UN documents.
Nov 26, 2014, 8:45 am
#90
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If you're confused about the use of the word "arrogantly", the word may be valid because of how French is used these days. If you have a US passport you'll see that it is in English and French. Do you know why? There is a treaty that says all passports will be in the native language plus either English or French. Why French? Because the French government demanded it and threatened to block the treaty. Nearly all countries that don't have English as the local language choose English as the second passport language. Arrogance in the French government is the only reason French is an official language in EU or UN documents.
