HomerJ

....have you?

gabriel2

1. Hollywood (and to some extent the whole of LA). Expecting glamour, found tackiness, dirty streets and underwhelming attractions.
2. London - there is so much hype about the culture and vibe of London. In reality it has crowded streets, crowded underground, very high prices (including extremely high property prices) and not particularly friendly people who always seem to be rushing somewhere. Much prefer the atmosphere of Paris where you can always stop at a cafe and the boulevards are much wider and nicer to walk.
3. Holland - expected a liberal and cool country, discovered a very controlled, rude and apathetic society which values an early retirement over a rewarding life.

Ben and Jerry

That's like expecting all of the USA to be the land of the free and the home of the brave, filled with only cowboys and Hollywood stars.

(and I presume you mean the Netherlands, Holland is only a part of the country)

YorkieFlyer

America, seen it on films and TV and don't fancy it.

Long Train Runnin

Petrified Forest National Park. Just not worth it.

gabriel2

How is that the same? I never mentioned expecting all of Holland to be liberal. The discrepancy here is not in that a small proportion of the country is different from the rest, but in that the reality as a whole does not fit the expectations. The Dutch used to have very liberal policies and traditionally have been very welcoming to immigrants, while in recent years they have made a U-turn and created a very controlled society for both immigrants and its own citizens, not just state-enforced but also culturally enforced. So using your hypothetical example above, it would be like expecting all of the US to be the land of the free and the brave and then discovering a totalitarian society full of cowards, which I think would indeed surprise everybody.

As for Holland vs Netherlands, I can only comment on Holland, specifically Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Leiden as I never really visited the remainder of the Netherlands. In any case you will find the term Holland is often used to refer to the Netherlands informally.

Ben and Jerry

Well I would know being born and raised there, having lived there for 39 years.

You said you were expecting a cool and liberal country, but you now say you have only visited a part of it and don't want to speak about the whole country.

As far as liberal goes, I think even a pretty rightwing minded person for dutch standards is considered a far leftwing liberal according to American standards.

aeroman380

So you never really visited and learned about the Netherlands. (that is not a question)

A person outside of nord Holland and south Holland would never call it Holland.

gabriel2

That is not particularly relevant as my original post referred to Holland - a part of the Netherlands - which I have visited and learned about. Whether or not what I wrote applies to the rest of the Netherlands is another matter, and not the subject of my post.

gabriel2

Do you mean the fact that I used the word 'country' in my post to refer to Holland? If this is the problem I can refer to 'the provinces of north and south Holland' instead of 'the country', to avoid any ambiguity.
But even if the other provinces are very different to Holland, the two Holland provinces account for about 1/3 of the Netherlands' population so are not exactly insignificant with respect to the Netherlands as a whole.

With regards to liberalism, we could certainly debate where the current Dutch policies land on the political spectrum and I have no definitive answer to that. What shocked me more when visiting and speaking to people who live there is the striking contrast between the perceived civil freedom and the day-to-day life within Dutch society - specifically the outward image of Holland as culturally liberal, yet actually having a very conformist society which makes many things impossible without following the system. Sure, it is not North Korea, but it is a far cry from the free and open image Holland has (or used to have) abroad.

84fiero

Well why bother leaving your armchair at all then, since film and TV tell you all you need to know about a place!

btw this thread is supposed to be about disappointing places you've been to, not places you've never visited.

Ben and Jerry

Well that's the thing with images: they are often simplistic in nature and will never cover the full culture of a country/region/area. One image of the Netherlands is that everyone smokes pot all day while wearing wooden shoes...

As for free and open: there's plenty of areas in the US where you are supposedly free, but if your views do not match what the general population in that area think, you're in some trouble....

Oh and yes: the other parts of the Netherlands are actually significantly different :-)

In the north you've got people that actually speak a completely different language (frisian), not just a dialect. And while the north of the country is mostly protestant, the south is more catholic.

In other words: a pretty diverse country, with lots of different attitudes.

BadgerBoi

Give him a break - once you've been to a major world city like Naples Florida anywhere else could only be a disappointment...

YorkieFlyer

Ah yes one of the things I won't be missing is irony......

YorkieFlyer

The USA. That is the bit in the middle. several places within 100 miles of the coast are interesting, quirky or iconic. The rest of it is full of nothing of any interest to anyone who's society has seen the Age of Enlightenment. And I have been, oh yes indeed!