Horrible treatment by Canadian Customs/Immigration (CBSA) at YVR
Nov 2, 2012, 9:33 pm
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
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Posts: 21,602
... no different than Canadian agents.
Agree with other posters: NEXUS is the best $50 any traveler can spend.
A great way to avoid interaction with power tripping border agents on either side of the border.
Agree with other posters: NEXUS is the best $50 any traveler can spend.
A great way to avoid interaction with power tripping border agents on either side of the border.
Nov 2, 2012, 9:37 pm
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
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Posts: 21,690
Nov 2, 2012, 9:49 pm
#34
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,916
Mods, feel free to move this if it belongs in Travel Safety/Security or Canada.
So here's the background. I wanted to go to Alaska for my birthday and I've been wanting to fly Cathay Pacific for a long time. I decided to combine the two and booked a JFK-YVR flight on CX in First and then bought an Alaska ticket from YVR-SEA-ANC. When I arrived at YVR I explained this to the first agent I saw and he wrote some numbers on my customs declaration that indicated I was to be sent to secondary screening. Here is where the "fun" started.
Never in my life have I been made to feel more like a criminal. I have friends who have been arrested who were treated better. I explained what I was doing and showed my Alaska E-Ticket reservation to a female agent who promptly requested a supervisor. I was then told "empty your pockets and step away from the table". The two of them looked through all the pictures in my camera, then turned on my cell phone and proceeded to read through my emails and texts and scroll through the photos therein. Meanwhile, I was asked over and over again what drugs I took and what I'd been arrested for. The more I said "none and nothing", the more I said "I'm going to Alaska for fun" the more condescending and accusatory they became.
They saw I had an entry stamp from SDQ on 9/1 and an exit on 9/3 and told me "I've never heard of anyone staying only two days, why were you REALLY there?". They didn't believe that I'd gone because "it's there". They asked how much money I made and then chose to run a criminal background check on me. The whole ordeal took over 45 minutes and what upset me the most was I HAD DONE NOTHING WRONG. The more I explained why I was there, the less they believed me. I almost wanted to start lying so hopefully they'd believe me and let me go. When I asked what they expected to find in my phone they snapped "the Customs Act allows us to look through your phone so be quiet".
So here's the background. I wanted to go to Alaska for my birthday and I've been wanting to fly Cathay Pacific for a long time. I decided to combine the two and booked a JFK-YVR flight on CX in First and then bought an Alaska ticket from YVR-SEA-ANC. When I arrived at YVR I explained this to the first agent I saw and he wrote some numbers on my customs declaration that indicated I was to be sent to secondary screening. Here is where the "fun" started.
Never in my life have I been made to feel more like a criminal. I have friends who have been arrested who were treated better. I explained what I was doing and showed my Alaska E-Ticket reservation to a female agent who promptly requested a supervisor. I was then told "empty your pockets and step away from the table". The two of them looked through all the pictures in my camera, then turned on my cell phone and proceeded to read through my emails and texts and scroll through the photos therein. Meanwhile, I was asked over and over again what drugs I took and what I'd been arrested for. The more I said "none and nothing", the more I said "I'm going to Alaska for fun" the more condescending and accusatory they became.
They saw I had an entry stamp from SDQ on 9/1 and an exit on 9/3 and told me "I've never heard of anyone staying only two days, why were you REALLY there?". They didn't believe that I'd gone because "it's there". They asked how much money I made and then chose to run a criminal background check on me. The whole ordeal took over 45 minutes and what upset me the most was I HAD DONE NOTHING WRONG. The more I explained why I was there, the less they believed me. I almost wanted to start lying so hopefully they'd believe me and let me go. When I asked what they expected to find in my phone they snapped "the Customs Act allows us to look through your phone so be quiet".
Nov 2, 2012, 9:55 pm
#35
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 642
I am a US citizen. The way US CBP treated me several times upon entering the US is the main reason I went out of my way to get Global Entry (I have no history with law enforcement of any sort, at all). Worth it to avoid the stress.
US CBP is doing their job, but they can do it in a professional and courteous manner. The way they often behave is not the way to treat our guests.
I haven't entered Canada many times, but when I have they have always been professional, though I suspect I got lucky.
US CBP is doing their job, but they can do it in a professional and courteous manner. The way they often behave is not the way to treat our guests.
I haven't entered Canada many times, but when I have they have always been professional, though I suspect I got lucky.
Nov 2, 2012, 10:06 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2012
Programs: Delta Silver
Posts: 79
I've been to many countries in Europe, South America and Asia and customs/immigration has always been a quick and pleasant experience.
The only country where I've consistently experienced rude behavior and treated like a criminal for daring to visit for the weekend has been our favorite neighbor to the north...Canada.
The only country where I've consistently experienced rude behavior and treated like a criminal for daring to visit for the weekend has been our favorite neighbor to the north...Canada.
Nov 2, 2012, 10:13 pm
#37
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,990
I've been to many countries in Europe, America and Asia and customs/immigration has always been a quick and pleasant experience.
The only country where I've consistently experienced rude behavior and treated like a criminal for daring to visit for the weekend has been our favorite neighbor to the north...Canada.
The only country where I've consistently experienced rude behavior and treated like a criminal for daring to visit for the weekend has been our favorite neighbor to the north...Canada.
) without even showing any identification. Of course that has all been ruined by world events in the last 25 years.
Nov 3, 2012, 10:39 am
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Frankly, if were not an American or Canadian citizen, I would skip both countries altogether. There are far more interesting places to which to travel.
Nov 3, 2012, 11:10 am
#39
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT/CNX
Programs: UA dirt... and btw, THE innovator of the phrase 'gate lice'. Yeah, that's right.
Posts: 2,874
While I’m not condoning the rude demeanor of the border patrol agents, I do have to wonder if some of it is purposeful. Perhaps they are trained as such? I dunno… maybe research has shown that making a pax uncomfortable gives cause to behavior that may ‘out’ them as illegal in some way. IF that is the case, I can partially understand the treatment.
All just a guess.
All just a guess.
Nov 3, 2012, 12:54 pm
#40
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E75, SPG Plat, HH peon-by-choice (ex Gold)
Posts: 8,090
While I’m not condoning the rude demeanor of the border patrol agents, I do have to wonder if some of it is purposeful. Perhaps they are trained as such? I dunno… maybe research has shown that making a pax uncomfortable gives cause to behavior that may ‘out’ them as illegal in some way. IF that is the case, I can partially understand the treatment.
All just a guess.
All just a guess.
Nov 3, 2012, 12:59 pm
#41
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
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Posts: 33,857
While I’m not condoning the rude demeanor of the border patrol agents, I do have to wonder if some of it is purposeful. Perhaps they are trained as such? I dunno… maybe research has shown that making a pax uncomfortable gives cause to behavior that may ‘out’ them as illegal in some way. IF that is the case, I can partially understand the treatment.
All just a guess.
All just a guess.
I'm very saddened to hear that the experiences I went through have happened to so many of my fellow travelers in this country. I was hoping what happened to me was atypical, not typical. I guess I need to get out more.
Nov 3, 2012, 2:33 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
Again, just be glad you are not a foreigner coming into the USA.
Nov 3, 2012, 2:48 pm
#43
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 739
CMK10,
Welcome to the club. It's called profiling. Your travels do not fit the
typical/accepted patterns, ergo, the delay and shakedown.
GE/Nexus/Sentri should be helpful because some vetting is done on
front-end. But; they are no guarantee of a hassle-free border crossing.
Especially so; given your destination and itinerary.
> Would the US really read the texts and emails of people?
Yes. It is routine. LOTS of info (intelligence) in what is called, "pocket litter."
> I know to do that to a US citizen they'd need a warrant.
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG ... and WRONG.
When you are at a PoE, immigration officers (USA & other countries) have
exceptional powers to search and detain without warrants or probable cause.
A whim, a hunch and just-because are all entirely legal.
In the USA; ICE and CBP exceptions that allow warrantless search and
detain far inland from the physical border:
http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-l...tion-free-zone
https://frtv.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...tutionFree.jpg
That said, I have also spoken with quite senior DOJ Criminal Division
prosecutors ... and they really get uncomfortable when ICE & CBP
officers stray too far from the border.
> I said I only travel INTERNATIONALLY twice a year, I travel domestically
> twice a month.
This does nothing to alay suspicion. Be respectful. Don't give'm a REASON
to arrest/detain.
Welcome to the club. It's called profiling. Your travels do not fit the
typical/accepted patterns, ergo, the delay and shakedown.
GE/Nexus/Sentri should be helpful because some vetting is done on
front-end. But; they are no guarantee of a hassle-free border crossing.
Especially so; given your destination and itinerary.
> Would the US really read the texts and emails of people?
Yes. It is routine. LOTS of info (intelligence) in what is called, "pocket litter."
> I know to do that to a US citizen they'd need a warrant.
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG ... and WRONG.
When you are at a PoE, immigration officers (USA & other countries) have
exceptional powers to search and detain without warrants or probable cause.
A whim, a hunch and just-because are all entirely legal.
In the USA; ICE and CBP exceptions that allow warrantless search and
detain far inland from the physical border:
http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-l...tion-free-zone
https://frtv.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...tutionFree.jpg
That said, I have also spoken with quite senior DOJ Criminal Division
prosecutors ... and they really get uncomfortable when ICE & CBP
officers stray too far from the border.
> I said I only travel INTERNATIONALLY twice a year, I travel domestically
> twice a month.
This does nothing to alay suspicion. Be respectful. Don't give'm a REASON
to arrest/detain.
Last edited by dranz; Nov 3, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Nov 3, 2012, 3:59 pm
#45
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: QFF Gold, Flying Blue, Enrich
Posts: 5,366
That became my decision in regard the the US some time ago, and have had no regrets about my vacation dollars going to Asia and Europe.