pilotalan

I never had a SP2, but my both my SP3s (one got stolen) and my wife's SP3 have been rock solid.
I have been a Wacom user, but the N-Trig pen and digitizer in the SP3 has been perfect. MS bought N-Trig, so....

Although the SP2 is smaller in height, the SP3 is much thinner and lighter.

Dubai Stu

Tomorrow is Apple's big product announcement. There may be a major upgrade to the Mac Air and an iPad Pro being announced tomorrow. I move to table the discussion until tomorrow afternoon. All in favor?

JClishe

The rumors are that a Mac Air announcement won't occur until June, and iPad Pro PRODUCTION won't even start until September.

Besides, I think an iPad Pro is totally irrelevant to this discussion. As long it runs iOS than it's an instant non-starter no matter what the hardware is.

egondo

keep an eye for the surface pro 4 if you are eager to wait

Dubai Stu

Well they didn't release the iPad Pro so it is a non-starter. I had heard rumors that the 12 inch MacBook was going to be detachable like the Surface Pro. The big thing is that is clear is that the A9 is not driving the new Mac. Remember that both units at their core run a subset of the same operating system.

stimpy

What I have yet to learn is, and please help if you know, what can a Surface do that an iPad cannot? Anything useful? I see no reason to switch, but my mind is open.

JClishe

Run Outlook
Run Photoshop
Run Lightroom
Connect to a keyboard and mouse
Connect to an external display
Connect to external hard drives and thumb drives
Import raw images from my camera
Import videos from GoPro and edit / re-encode them
Connect to my work's VPN
Allow me to open any of my files in any app that I want / need
Connect to basically any USB device in existence

Those are just some quick top of mind thoughts

stimpy

Well you can run native Office from a server using, for example, Citrix Receiver. And use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard, though I cannot see any reason for a mouse with a touchscreen. I have used a bluetooth keyboard which works well with an iPad. And you can of course use an external display with any iPad or iPhone! It's called Airplay. And you can import raw images from your camera, why wouldn't you? I don't know about GoPro. Some VPN's are supported, right? What files can't you open? But yes it is true there is no USB. However I think people are past that these days.

So again, what's missing?

wco81

Windows software.

But that is becoming less and less important over time.

JClishe

So you don't own a laptop then? An iPad is the only mobile device you travel with? That is, after all, the entire point of this thread...the OP wants to consolidate both his laptop and his iPad down to a single device for business travel. (and he did mention running Adobe CC which immediately disqualifies an iPad anyway).

If you've been able to do that, congrats!! Good on you. However, there are very few business professionals that can take only an iPad on business travel and feel just as effective / efficient / productive as they could on a laptop (which is functionally what an SP3 is, with some sacrifices in "lapability").

stimpy

Yes since I can do pretty much full Office I can travel with only an iPad. I don't use Adobe CC or any of a thousand other apps that require Windows. I've moved away from all that over the last few years. Sometimes I bring a Mac Air with me, but I obviously prefer to travel only with an iPad. It's funny though, on many trips I can get away with only an iPhone and have even run animated presentations to a big screen from my iPhone!

pilotalan

A computer.

A Surface is a full blown computer in a tablet form factor. It can be used as a computer, or as a tablet.
An iPad can be used as a tablet, and that's all.

If you don't need a computer, then an iPad is fine for you.

If you can do everything you need over Citrix, then great. That doesn't work for me. You know the limitations of Citrix on an iPad. Not the least of which is a persistent, high-quality broadband connection.

You know that complex Office documents don't work right on Office Mobile (embedded tables, macro-enabled spreadsheets, Powerpoints with precise spacing, etc), much less on Pages or Numbers or Keynote.
If you don't deal with complex documents, then an iPad is all you need.

If you don't have to change formats of documents, share them with others, change them to PDFs, make PDF annotations or create PDFs, then an iPad is all you need.

If you don't have to deal with internal or customer intranet/websites with hover-dropdowns, or right-clickable elements, or flash animations, or java animations, then an iPad is all you need.

If you don't have client AV systems that require a VGA connection to present and that the only connection is on the other end of the training room (and in one case, a DVI connection!)

If you've never gotten to a site and had to put your files on a thumbdrive at the last second.

If you don't have a requirement to keep confidential files on a client-supplied, biometrically locked, encrypted USB hard drive.

I have all of those requirements, so an iPad is not even remotely a work-capable device for me.
In my last job, my iPad pretty much was my go-to device. Now, not even a little bit.

stimpy

Well it's semantics, but an iPad is absolutely a computer. It runs a full unix OS with the Apple middleware above it.

While active, yes you need Wifi or 3G/4G for Citrix, but you can store the documents and access them offline.

So if Office Mobile isn't good, use something that is good. A great app called Bigtincan Hub displays Powerpoint perfectly on an iPad. And there are others. What the Hub does is convert PPT into HTML 4 so it works just as good as a full PC, even with animation or foreign fonts.

You can absolutely make PDF annotations on an iPad. I've been doing it for a few years now. That's old hat. And search PDF's, collaborate on PDF's with others while having a VoIP or video chat window on the screen, etc. Again, you just download the right app for that.

You can absolutely use internal websites with all the bells and whistles. As for animation, just use the right app to convert it into a format that works, such as HTML 4.

As I said above, you can use Airplay, but if you are at a site that has old school tech, then yes that is why I sometimes bring a Mac Air with me. So I can plug in a VGA connector. Actually I think I've seen VGA connectors that will also connect to an iPad, but I haven't tried those.

I haven't been to a site yet that doesn't have secure or open WiFi access for guests. Or you could use LTE. So no need for a thumbdrive in most all cases.

Well yes that requirement and some other older methods surely excludes an iPad.

pilotalan

As I said, in my old job, an iPad was all I need.
But an iPad is a very limited, locked down device, without a file system, and that makes it VERY hard to do some simple, common tasks.

You know as well as I do, if you have a powerpoint with very carefully designed spacings and placements of graphics, they do not survive conversion.
If they are your documents and you can create them in the format you wish, that's great. But if you're using slide decks created by a client or another source, that's problematic.

Sure, I used iAnnotate PDF, PDF Pro, etc etc. But none of them would give me everything I needed. I need to markup, edit, use complex fillable forms, and PDF portfolios.
I had five different PDF apps to get all the functionalities i needed to work right. Or I can use Acrobat Pro on my Surface.

My client's GIS mapping portal uses flash. There is no way to make it work on an iPad. Period. Another client's site requires a 'mouse-hover-over' to bring down the drop-down list. Cannot be done on the iPad.
Another web app I am required to use *requires* right click inputs to bring down certain functions. Very difficult to interact with on an iPad.
Another app uses java mapping. It uses click and drag to move the map. It will not work on an iPad, period.

Are those poor implementations? Yes. Would I design them that way? No.
Do I have a choice? No.

Airplay won't work with the VGA connector on the other side of the room. The device feeding the video has to be sitting there (which means it's 25 feet away, and need a remote).

Good for you. Many of the places I go there is no LTE, in some there's no cell service. One place is 30 feet underground, another is in the center of a building full of servers and there's barely 1XRTT service.
Many of my clients have no guest wifi, and only their machines can hit the network. The three places I was at today have no guest wifi.

Heck, at my office on client site, my only access is wired ethernet through my Surface Pro's dock. There's no wireless and no LTE. And no, I can't put a WAP on the end of the ethernet if I'd like to keep my contract.

Again, for some people's use cases, iPads are great. Just understand that your use case and other peoples' are not the same. Just as my use case and others' is not the same.
You asked why anyone would need something more than a iPad, and I've explained it. An iPad is an amazing device, but with significant and serious limitations.

EDIT: To be clear, if my workflows and requirements allowed to my use an iPad, that all I would carry. But it doesn't.

EDIT #2: I just remembered the thing that finally drove me over the edge. You annotate would PDF for an expense report, browse to the website for your expense system, and there's a box to upload your pdf.
The "Select File" box doesn't do anything, because there's no file system. You have to do it from a computer.

JClishe

It's not about the apps, it's about the use case.

Stimpy, I'm going to flip this around on you. Imagine you're meeting with an IT Director that's deciding between rolling out iPads or SP3's to his sales reps. The reps are typical information workers that use all the Office apps, Excel reports with pivot tables, Outlook, intranet sites, need to connect to unknown projectors at client sites, transfer files via thumbdrives, do some occasional printing, etc. What argument would you build that portrays the iPad as the all-around better device for his sales reps?

BTW I'm in IT sales and I've had this discussion with IT Directors many times. I know of many orgs that are right now as we speak retiring their fleet of iPads and replacing them with SP3's because even though the iPad's looked great on paper, there were too many real world compatibility and productivity issues that their staff were running into.

For the record I have an iPad (and a keyboard cover for it), and a Surface Pro 3. Yes the iPad has most of the apps I need. And I like the iPad a lot, I think it's a great device. AND...I would never travel with it on business by itself (I have and was miserable). My real world use case tells me that I'm more productive on the SP3 than I am on the iPad. Building an argument based solely on whether the iPad has the apps I need instead of focusing on the deliverables I need to produce and the most productive way to produce them is a pointless exercise.