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Old Nov 4, 02, 8:43 am   #1
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Opinion: New federal agency is doing a poor job of making flying safer

http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/co...7edann27p2.asp

"Most Americans probably haven't heard much about the newest federal alphabet agency -- the Transportation Security Administration. That's good. Knowing about the TSA would just make them angry."

I'm pleased to see journalists finally working up the courage to critize this disgrace of an organization. It's about time the traveling public realized how badly they are being screwed by Normie and his Thugs.

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Old Nov 4, 02, 9:03 am   #2
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Me, too!!!

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Old Nov 4, 02, 12:00 pm   #3
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Me three!
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Old Nov 4, 02, 2:02 pm   #4
 
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Old Nov 4, 02, 2:56 pm   #5
 
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Yes, but the airports *look* safer.
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Old Nov 4, 02, 3:03 pm   #6
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And with less space for people! But, look at all the nice new/neat machines.
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Old Nov 4, 02, 3:22 pm   #7
 
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PSC 1K:
And with less space for people! But, look at all the nice new/neat machines. </font>
And nice Spiffy uniforms (sorry Spiff )with 5 people pointing to a screen and trying to determine whats inside instead of just opening the d@mn bag! and keeping the machine going.
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Old Nov 4, 02, 3:23 pm   #8
 
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To me the most interesting aspect of the article, is that it did not make a single constructive suggestion about how to make flying safer. If the federal agency is doing a poor job of making flying safer, what should it be do differently? Spiff?
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Old Nov 4, 02, 3:47 pm   #9
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They feel safer, too.

No, wait. That's the screener doing the feeling. Never mind.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by flowerchild:
Yes, but the airports *look* safer. </font>
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[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 11-04-2002).]
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Old Nov 4, 02, 3:57 pm   #10
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I've mentioned it many times:

Focus on real threats. Every item that is prohibited requires time and resources to keep it from getting on the plane or into the terminal. For every person/dollar we waste keeping cricket bats, pool cues and pocket knives out, we open ourselves to real threats elsewhere.

Stop randomly harassing passengers. It's not the current passengers' fault that 11 Sept happened. Rely on/improve the x-ray and magnetometer instead of harassing passengers who do not beep and whose luggage appears to be fine on the x-ray. Concentrate on keeping out the real threats like guns and bombs and people might even start flying again.

Stop clearing terminals on a whim. If someone might have gotten through with a knife, GIVE IT A MISS and let it go. The probability that the person with the knife is both a terrorist and could hijack a plane with it is so small that one should be buying asteroid insurance ahead of clearing a terminal to combat this 'threat'.

I am not advocating elimination of all security for all you TSA apologists. We need to take a good look at what constitutes a credible threat and what does not and then focus our efforts on real threats and not on stupid threats like pool cues. Hell, any object has a non-zero probability of being a credible weapon to hijack a plane. However, most of the items on the sacred prohibited list have probabilities that barely register, especially when compared with real threats.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by benoit:
To me the most interesting aspect of the article, is that it did not make a single constructive suggestion about how to make flying safer. If the federal agency is doing a poor job of making flying safer, what should it be do differently? Spiff?</font>


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Old Nov 4, 02, 4:10 pm   #11
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
I've mentioned it many times:

Focus on real threats. Every item that is prohibited requires time and resources to keep it from getting on the plane or into the terminal. For every person/dollar we waste keeping cricket bats, pool cues and pocket knives out, we open ourselves to real threats elsewhere.

Stop randomly harassing passengers. It's not the current passengers' fault that 11 Sept happened. Rely on/improve the x-ray and magnetometer instead of harassing passengers who do not beep and whose luggage appears to be fine on the x-ray. Concentrate on keeping out the real threats like guns and bombs and people might even start flying again.

Stop clearing terminals on a whim. If someone might have gotten through with a knife, GIVE IT A MISS and let it go. The probability that the person with the knife is both a terrorist and could hijack a plane with it is so small that one should be buying asteroid insurance ahead of clearing a terminal to combat this 'threat'.

I am not advocating elimination of all security for all you TSA apologists. We need to take a good look at what constitutes a credible threat and what does not and then focus our efforts on real threats and not on stupid threats like pool cues. Hell, any object has a non-zero probability of being a credible weapon to hijack a plane. However, most of the items on the sacred prohibited list have probabilities that barely register, especially when compared with real threats.
</font>
Let's see...

You don't like random checks, but you're also against profiling.

You don't want air marshals, and you also oppose arming pilots.

Exactly what kind of security measure do you support other than "trust the mob of passengers", which has had the proven effect of killing everyone on board.

Oh, I know. You've already said it.

"Go back to pre-11 Sept. security."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/004805.html

Your claim of "not advocating elimination of all security" is laughable given that your proposal is to basically act like 9/11 never happened. The world is just the same as before in your view.

Even the terrorist assault on Bali didn't change your mind.

You are living in the "best of all possible worlds", and turning a blind eye to the stark reality that things have changed. I think it's time to grow up and stop living in the golden glow of things-that-was.
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Old Nov 4, 02, 4:29 pm   #12
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How about it's time to grow up and realize that all risk cannot be eliminated from life without eliminating life itself. Let's accept a certain level of risk -- as we do with respect to almost everything else -- and get on with living. What makes airports and airplanes so sacred that they should get presidential-level protection and all the associated inconvenience? Why not trains, boats, buses, cars -- you get the picture.

Stop it already. I'm safe enough right now. Leave me alone.

Bruce
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Old Nov 4, 02, 5:17 pm   #13
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You are correct on all counts except your last one: things have not changed. We are still the United States of America. The Constitution is still valid. The last time I checked, we did not negotiate with terrorists under any circumstances. Yet we now allow them to dictate what liberties we can and cannot have? And we allow them to make changes to how we treat guests in this country, the overwhelming majority of whom are peaceful, law-abiding citizens who treat us well when we visit their countries? I am deeply saddened by the terrorist events that have taken place over the last quarter-century, especially in the last 13 months. But there is no way I am ever going to give in to these murderers and change my way of life and the American way of life just for the possibility of a little more safety and security.

Bruce is right: life is about taking some risks. We don't need a wet blanket of constant security wrapped around our throats. And we need to stop treating our airports like they're the one magical place where terrorism is possible.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Let's see...

You don't like random checks, but you're also against profiling.

You don't want air marshals, and you also oppose arming pilots.

Exactly what kind of security measure do you support other than "trust the mob of passengers", which has had the proven effect of killing everyone on board.

Oh, I know. You've already said it.

"Go back to pre-11 Sept. security."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/004805.html

Your claim of "not advocating elimination of all security" is laughable given that your proposal is to basically act like 9/11 never happened. The world is just the same as before in your view.

Even the terrorist assault on Bali didn't change your mind.

You are living in the "best of all possible worlds", and turning a blind eye to the stark reality that things have changed. I think it's time to grow up and stop living in the golden glow of things-that-was.
</font>


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Old Nov 4, 02, 5:58 pm   #14
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
You are correct on all counts except your last one: things have not changed. We are still the United States of America. The Constitution is still valid. The last time I checked, we did not negotiate with terrorists under any circumstances. Yet we now allow them to dictate what liberties we can and cannot have? And we allow them to make changes to how we treat guests in this country, the overwhelming majority of whom are peaceful, law-abiding citizens who treat us well when we visit their countries? I am deeply saddened by the terrorist events that have taken place over the last quarter-century, especially in the last 13 months. But there is no way I am ever going to give in to these murderers and change my way of life and the American way of life just for the possibility of a little more safety and security.

Bruce is right: life is about taking some risks. We don't need a wet blanket of constant security wrapped around our throats. And we need to stop treating our airports like they're the one magical place where terrorism is possible.
</font>
What a wonderfully self-centered answer.

Just because we're Americans, what the rest of the world does won't change how we do things. Does that about sum it up?

But we don't live in isolation and the actions of people outside the borders of the USA can and does change the way we live. The country adapts. We are not the same Americans we were 2 years ago or a century ago. Things change, Spiff, even if you don't want them to.

Let's call it like it is. It's not the "American way of life" you're protecting. It's your way of life. You don't like it that the government no longer does things the way you want them to do it. You're the minority opinion. The marginalized voice.

And it's darn annoying to be subject to the majority opinion, so you throw around labels like thugs and terms like "gate rape".

It's not some mythical 'them' doing these things. It's us. The majority of American approve and support these changes. It's shown in poll after poll. Much as I dislike Bush and think he's an idiot, Bush enjoys the support of a majority of Americans despite doing all those things you despise.

Bottom line: life isn't always how YOU want it to be.
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Old Nov 5, 02, 8:05 am   #15
 
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
....
It's not some mythical 'them' doing these things. It's us. The majority of American approve and support these changes. It's shown in poll after poll. ...
</font>
People support it because they BELIEVE it is making them/us safer. If they had ALL the facts, they would no longer support it.

They are supporting a perception, not a reality. The sooner we understand that, the better off we will all be.
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