samosa

Exactly. As for the rear facing. This seat is only approved by the faa to be rear facing. Not sure why. But others are front facing only. I haven't personally seen one that is faa approved for both but there may be some.

kchoya

This post doesn't make sense. Most (if not almost all) car seats are approved by the FAA to be secured facing forward or facing the rear.

CDTraveler

Can't speak to the current FAA rules but there are a great number of seats, probably most of them, designed to be used only one direction because of the angle of incline and method of strap attachment.

Back in the day my kid had a seat designed to be convertible, and converting it was not simple. You basically had to take it apart and rethread the straps and then reassemble the bucket/cushion section. I went to a class that explained the physics of all this when I was pregnant, and the instructor did crash mock-ups to show the differences. To face one direction the straps should originate below the child's shoulders and for the other direction they should be from above. Don't ask me which is which anymore; my kid is old enough for a driver's license of his own now.

Angle of incline matters, too. Put a child with poor head control in a seat that is too upright and the child may compress their airway and basically suffocate.

s0ssos

Crash mockups? For an airplane? I think almost nobody has experienced an airplane crash here on FT.

CDTraveler

Well, I guess I'm in the minority then, as I've had that unpleasant experience.

But as I suspect you realize quite well, I was posting about the correct way to configure car seats for front versus rear facing scenarios and the relative physics.

kchoya

You should go visit your local Babies 'R Us. Almost all seats sold today are convertible (and easily so). I have three kids and have gone through multiple seats. The "conversion" from rear-facing to front-facing has only involved feeding the belt through a different path (or using the LATCH anchors when front facing). No disassembly required.

swise

Yeah, convertible seats are the most common now. They are rear-facing and forward facing. They do not require disassembly or anything extensive to convert. Two of the models we have used for travel have an incline adjuster (flip up/flip down, like a kickstand. Takes 2 seconds) and will need the shoulder straps moved to a different slot. (Re-thread. Takes a minute or two.)


Children must exceed certain height/weight/age limits before they can be turned forward facing, and it is recommended that children remain rear-facing up until age 2, regardless of size. My kids rear-face in our car through age 4. (Our Clek Foonf seats have a RF limit of 50 lbs/43")

On planes, we Rear-faced until about age 2.5, mainly because the seats are inclined nicely for sleeping. My husband and older son would sit in front of me and the younger son, so we didn't inconvenience anyone with the RF seat.

Here's an important consideration: If a child does not meet the height/weight limits to sit forward-facing in a convertible seat, the seat MUST be rear-facing, no matter whether it is being used in a car or on a plane. FAA guidelines indicate that it must be installed and used according to the manufacturer's instructions.

To add on, there is overlap between the RF maximums and the FF minimums. This means that it may be at the parent's discretion whether they would like to RF or FF their child. FAA guidelines don't indicate that a child must FF once they meet the minimum threshold. As long as a parent is using the seat in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, they are free to install it in whichever direction they prefer in this scenario.

xinerevelle

IIRC (and my kids are 7 and 9, so it's been a few years since they were in the infant seats), infant carriers, which the article made it sound like they were using, do not have a way to be attached to the seat unless they are rear-facing. I could turn the seat around, but there'd be no way to fasten the lap belt to it.

s0ssos

This is what I don't understand, why people believe these guidelines are logical or based on any evidence. Did the manufacturer test it in an airplane? Are impacts in airplane similar to those in a car? The answer is "no" in both questions.
These is no "safety" issue at stake. Rather, there is probably a safety issue in the crashes that occur (the 0.00001%, made up that figure) but nobody knows anything about it. Just throwing out random policies doesn't make anybody safer (though it may make some feel better).

swise

Most convertible seats are designed to be used for infants as small as 5 lbs rear-facing. Rear-facing maximum limits generally range from 35 lbs up to 50 lbs, depending on the manufacturer.

Rear-facing seats are inclined so that the child is leaning back. When you position the seat forward-facing, the seat is much more upright. In the case of an infant, the seat has to lean back to ensure that their head is positioned properly so that breathing isn't compromised. In the case of an older child, the incline helps the seat to absorb the impacts of a crash from any direction better than a forward-facing seat. Also, a child sitting in the inclined position is less likely to sustain injuries than if they are more upright and facing forward. This is because as they are jostled around, the have the protection of the vehicle seatback, along with their child restraint.

Manufacturers have forward-facing minimums for convertible seats, because children smaller than those minimums cannot sustain the forces of a crash with a seat that is less inclined.

It's true that car seat crash tests aren't done with planes. But the seats are still designed to sustain impact forces from any direction -- not just a rear-end or front-end collision.

Also, again, to repeat, car seat manuals say that you cannot forward-face a child in a convertible car seat until they can *at least* meet the minimum height and weight limits of the seat. If the child is too small, the seat should be rear-facing, even on a plane, in order to be compliant with FAA guidelines.

And even if a child is bigger than the forward-facing minimums and *could* forward-face, the parent may opt to keep the seat rear-facing up to the rear-facing maximums, if they so desired.

example: In our cars, we use the Clek Foonf seat. (silly name, I know) According to the specs at the bottom of that link...
kids between 5 and 20 lbs must rear-face.
Kids up to 50 lbs can rear-face.
Kids 20-50 lbs can forward-face.
Kids 50-65 lbs must forward-face.

You see there's some overlap there. Between 20 and 50 lbs, you have the option of forward-facing, or you can keep on rear-facing. In a car, it totally makes sense to rear-face to the maximum, though, because it is sooo much safer statistically. The big statistic often cited is: Your kid is about 5 times more likely to survive a serious accident rear-facing vs forward-facing. I think this buzzphrase is a bit overhyped personally, but what I can't argue with is that for decades it's been common practice in Sweden for kids to rear-face to age 4, and their fatality rate for kids under 4 is astonishingly low. Like a death a year on average. I know they have more reindeer than people, but still.

So even though the law in most states says you can legally turn kids around at age 1, and even though the American Academy of Pediatrics advises to leave kids rear-facing until at least age 2, the best policy is to rear-face your kid until they outgrow the Rear-facing limits of their seat.

In our case, with the Clek Foonfs, my older kid was almost 5 when I turned him around, due to him reaching the height limit, actually (which I left out of the discussion here, for simplicity). He's nearly 6 and still not 50 lbs! His brother will be 4 in October and still happily rear-faces.

People often worry that their legs are cramped, since their up against the seat. But kids are limber, and bendy, and they just bend their knees and are fine. Some think that if the legs are touching the vehicle seatback there's a risk they could get broken in a crash. two answers: 1. They're not at greater risk for limb fracture, and 2. Better a broken leg than the not-yet-fused vertebrae separating in the neck and spine causing "internal decapitation."

Some people think their kid will not be able to interact in the car as well rear-facing. If that's all they know, it won't be a big deal. Again, generations of Swedes have done it. Even with my 3-year-old fully aware that his brother can sit facing forward, he doesn't complain about facing backwards.

All that being said (and it was a lot!!!)... We forward-faced our kids' airplane car seats (Costco Sceneras and later Evenflo Surerride) when they started staying awake on planes, probably around age 2.5. Up until then, we took advantage of the rear-facing incline, so that they could more comfortably snooze. And, as mentioned previously, Big Brother and Dad sat in front of Little Brother (rear-facing) and mom to avoid anyone being inconvenienced by us blocking a seat from reclining.

We're actually taking our first flights **without car seats** in December, traveling to TPE. I'll bring along 2 Mifolds for any car trips we'll take. Big milestone!

:-: for anyone who makes it this far reading this post!!!!

BeatCal

YOu are not using the seat for "a crash"
you are using it for hitting an air pocket
an infant's seat is rear facing for cars as their neck is not strong enough.

Tell the FA to look jp the rules. Have her sign a note that she is putting your child's safety at risk.

Then put your knees up and block the seat of the block head in front of you

theddo

It is very difficult to mandate that kids should get to sit in a seat if you at the same time allow them to be lap children, which most certainly will mean they are killed if they are subjected to air pockets or a crash.

That doesn't mean you can block anyone else's seat, and if you require 2 seats to use your child's seat pay for them and reserve them. It's as simple as that.

ivan89

I do not know how many seats I will need for my car seat until I board a particular aircraft. If people are upset that they cannot recline with a car seat behind them, they can petition the FAA to not approve car seats that are too big to fit in an airplane without blocking anyone, or petition airlines to increase the seat pitch. It's as simple as that.

theddo

The onus is on you to find out. If your seat doesn't fit in the seat you shouldn't be allowed to use it, and "fit" includes everyone else being able to use their seats as designed.

The FAA should approve seats based on safety, not size. That's a responsible parent's job.

ivan89

Fortunately, not. The FAA regulations quite clearly state that it is the airline's responsibility to accommodate the car seat if it is approved for air travel and if a separate ticket is purchased for the baby.

It's the chicken or the egg dilemma. In the same manner I can say that the person in front shouldn't be allowed to recline if that would prevent my baby from traveling safely. If that person really wants to recline, he or she can buy two tickets (one being directly behind his/her seat), so that no one prevents the seat from being reclined.