Not declaring 2nd child / smuggle infant into Hotel?
Oct 5, 2015, 6:45 pm
#16
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
Well... I'm not saying your translation is wrong, but it's not necessarily right either.
I indeed do not respect rules that were put in place because of IT Limitations, or just in order to try and create a standard that doesn't work and apply for everybody.
Marriott's Booking Engine for example only allows to select "X Guests/Room", and I'd suggest that it does make a big difference if a guest is 6 Months, 2 years, or 40 years old.
If the hotel is able to cater to three adults (provide an extra bed) AND babies in general, then common sense tells me that it can cater for two babies instead of a third adult. I may not expect them providing two cots free of charge, or any special treatment - but certainly not to be kicked out / refused service either.
Fortunately that has proven true in my case, as explained by the Hotel's Reservation Manager.
Anyway, I asked the property, got the answer I wanted (and if I didn't, they wouldn't have gotten my business) - so this is really a non-issue.
I indeed do not respect rules that were put in place because of IT Limitations, or just in order to try and create a standard that doesn't work and apply for everybody.
Marriott's Booking Engine for example only allows to select "X Guests/Room", and I'd suggest that it does make a big difference if a guest is 6 Months, 2 years, or 40 years old.
If the hotel is able to cater to three adults (provide an extra bed) AND babies in general, then common sense tells me that it can cater for two babies instead of a third adult. I may not expect them providing two cots free of charge, or any special treatment - but certainly not to be kicked out / refused service either.
Fortunately that has proven true in my case, as explained by the Hotel's Reservation Manager.
Anyway, I asked the property, got the answer I wanted (and if I didn't, they wouldn't have gotten my business) - so this is really a non-issue.
"Common sense" as you choose to call it, often has nothing to do with occupancy rules. For example, in the Netherlands there are very strict fire safety laws and those determine hotel occupancy. I learned that booking our first family trip there, when 4 different hotels gave me the same story about why they had a strict 2 person limit to their rooms, and it didn't matter if the 3rd person was tiny. Don't assume IT limitations are what is behind the rule unless you have detailed knowledge of local laws.
Oct 8, 2015, 1:42 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
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Posts: 5,656
You wrote a whole lot, but your post can be summed up in your own 6 words:
"Common sense" as you choose to call it, often has nothing to do with occupancy rules. For example, in the Netherlands there are very strict fire safety laws and those determine hotel occupancy. I learned that booking our first family trip there, when 4 different hotels gave me the same story about why they had a strict 2 person limit to their rooms, and it didn't matter if the 3rd person was tiny. Don't assume IT limitations are what is behind the rule unless you have detailed knowledge of local laws.
"Common sense" as you choose to call it, often has nothing to do with occupancy rules. For example, in the Netherlands there are very strict fire safety laws and those determine hotel occupancy. I learned that booking our first family trip there, when 4 different hotels gave me the same story about why they had a strict 2 person limit to their rooms, and it didn't matter if the 3rd person was tiny. Don't assume IT limitations are what is behind the rule unless you have detailed knowledge of local laws.
Oct 8, 2015, 1:48 pm
#18
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Well... I'm not saying your translation is wrong, but it's not necessarily right either.
I indeed do not respect rules that were put in place because of IT Limitations, or just in order to try and create a standard that doesn't work and apply for everybody.
Marriott's Booking Engine for example only allows to select "X Guests/Room", and I'd suggest that it does make a big difference if a guest is 6 Months, 2 years, or 40 years old.
If the hotel is able to cater to three adults (provide an extra bed) AND babies in general, then common sense tells me that it can cater for two babies instead of a third adult. I may not expect them providing two cots free of charge, or any special treatment - but certainly not to be kicked out / refused service either.
Fortunately that has proven true in my case, as explained by the Hotel's Reservation Manager.
Anyway, I asked the property, got the answer I wanted (and if I didn't, they wouldn't have gotten my business) - so this is really a non-issue.
I indeed do not respect rules that were put in place because of IT Limitations, or just in order to try and create a standard that doesn't work and apply for everybody.
Marriott's Booking Engine for example only allows to select "X Guests/Room", and I'd suggest that it does make a big difference if a guest is 6 Months, 2 years, or 40 years old.
If the hotel is able to cater to three adults (provide an extra bed) AND babies in general, then common sense tells me that it can cater for two babies instead of a third adult. I may not expect them providing two cots free of charge, or any special treatment - but certainly not to be kicked out / refused service either.
Fortunately that has proven true in my case, as explained by the Hotel's Reservation Manager.
Anyway, I asked the property, got the answer I wanted (and if I didn't, they wouldn't have gotten my business) - so this is really a non-issue.
Oct 8, 2015, 4:52 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,909
As people have already said, in some jurisdictions there are strict occupancy limits for hotel rooms. If these laws don't have exceptions for children, the hotel has no choice but to obey the regulations, which would mean that your family could not stay in such a room.
Even here on ft i am yet to see where the 'fire code' restriction is actually applicable and what the law states.
In my personal experience with many hotels that do not allow >2 ppl/room in their booking engine, bringing kids is not a problem especially with existing bedding (several told me that there were simply no space to put a cot or a crib).
I would escalate any front desk reference to 'fire code' or similar occupancy nonsense to someone more senior to confirm.
Dec 19, 2016, 9:08 am
#20
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 15
azepine00 - first of all, I appreciate this is an old post.
It may be different for you in the States, but as far as the UK is concerned you are way off the mark.
As an ex senior member of the hotel team I was involved with annual inspections every two years with the Fire Inspector. His report would tell us maximum occupancy of each area of our hotel (including meeting rooms, F&B and Leisure areas). Once this was confirmed and certified, we DRUMMED it into all of our front facing & selling teams. Yes, we turned people away who thought it was OK to turn up with an extra person thinking we wouldn't mind - even if they had pre-booked for just 2 adults. The complaints at the front desk or even on Trip Advisor were nothing compared to the consequences of loosing a person due to a fire, especially if we had no record of that person being in our building.
In the UK, you also have to declare available space in the room in the event of an evacuation, hence you are not legally permitted to add an additional bed/cot in the room.
So, before you start accusing front desk staff of using this a "lame excuse" you need to read and read again what CDT Traveller has posted.
The parents who sneak their child into a hotel without informing anyone is irresponsible. If that child died in a fire.... who does the blame ultimately lie with?
It may be different for you in the States, but as far as the UK is concerned you are way off the mark.
As an ex senior member of the hotel team I was involved with annual inspections every two years with the Fire Inspector. His report would tell us maximum occupancy of each area of our hotel (including meeting rooms, F&B and Leisure areas). Once this was confirmed and certified, we DRUMMED it into all of our front facing & selling teams. Yes, we turned people away who thought it was OK to turn up with an extra person thinking we wouldn't mind - even if they had pre-booked for just 2 adults. The complaints at the front desk or even on Trip Advisor were nothing compared to the consequences of loosing a person due to a fire, especially if we had no record of that person being in our building.
In the UK, you also have to declare available space in the room in the event of an evacuation, hence you are not legally permitted to add an additional bed/cot in the room.
So, before you start accusing front desk staff of using this a "lame excuse" you need to read and read again what CDT Traveller has posted.
The parents who sneak their child into a hotel without informing anyone is irresponsible. If that child died in a fire.... who does the blame ultimately lie with?
Dec 20, 2016, 3:45 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 9,122
It may be different for you in the States, but as far as the UK is concerned you are way off the mark.
In the UK, you also have to declare available space in the room in the event of an evacuation, hence you are not legally permitted to add an additional bed/cot in the room.
...
In the UK, you also have to declare available space in the room in the event of an evacuation, hence you are not legally permitted to add an additional bed/cot in the room.
...
The systems are not synced.
Dec 30, 2016, 7:33 am
#23
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 15
So what? We travel to the UK very frequently. US based reservation systems and agents often have different occupancy numbers then the ones in the UK. E.g. if I go online or call Marriott it will not allow a roll-away. When I call Marriott UK they do. This is extremely common.
The systems are not synced.
The systems are not synced.
In the UK, many hotels are heavily reliant on third party websites (such as Booking.com) and some of these websites are not technically set up to be able to accept adults and children. This also includes hotels own website. A CRS may operate with the GDS (which is extremely antiquated) for thier group of hotels which is a different system from the hotels PMS. This may explain some of the reason you will get a more accurate information by contacting the hotel directly.
Unfortunately, whilst hotels will spend huge amounts of money on customer facing services, quite often they skimp on internal hotel technology.
Dec 30, 2016, 10:03 am
#24
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,539
OK, there is no need to be rude.
In the UK, many hotels are heavily reliant on third party websites (such as Booking.com) and some of these websites are not technically set up to be able to accept adults and children. This also includes hotels own website. A CRS may operate with the GDS (which is extremely antiquated) for thier group of hotels which is a different system from the hotels PMS. This may explain some of the reason you will get a more accurate information by contacting the hotel directly.
Unfortunately, whilst hotels will spend huge amounts of money on customer facing services, quite often they skimp on internal hotel technology.
In the UK, many hotels are heavily reliant on third party websites (such as Booking.com) and some of these websites are not technically set up to be able to accept adults and children. This also includes hotels own website. A CRS may operate with the GDS (which is extremely antiquated) for thier group of hotels which is a different system from the hotels PMS. This may explain some of the reason you will get a more accurate information by contacting the hotel directly.
Unfortunately, whilst hotels will spend huge amounts of money on customer facing services, quite often they skimp on internal hotel technology.
Dec 31, 2016, 3:46 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 15