vicarious_MR'er

For *your* children.

That isn't the same for everyone's.

Eclipsepearl

Well, actually, it's not just based on MY children but the hundreds that I had over 13 years of international long haul flights. I saw first-hand what worked, and what didn't. The article is actually more based on what I saw than on my own children and when we flew. I actually just applied what I witnessed with other people's children on airplanes when I finally had kids myself and started flying with them.

I also learned from my coworkers, who ALL had kids before I did. Obviously, Flight Attendants fly a lot with their own children.

One of the advantages of being an "older" mom lol!

So it's waaaaay beyond just what I did when I flew with mine. Admittedly, I had three, closely-spaced (us, older gals have to get down to business with procreating) with two being very active. One is an angel and super-easy. If I only had that one, then I'd be "snotty" about other people's children all the time but the other two give me a reality check.

LapLap, you're the one who is "snotty" (as you put it). Your post doesn't even make sense!

LapLap

OK, I'll explain it then

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl
Maybe your kids are better/calmer/more cooperative than the rest of ours? Congratulations!

Since I was pregnant I've looked through this forum and taken in the advice and guidance you have provide only to find over the years that very little of it actually applied to my own circumstances. I understand that you have a wealth of experience but that doesn't make it universal.

I put forward my experiences and my opinions as just that, my opinions and experiences.

But insisting time and time again that your way is "what works best" and implying that this advice is good for everybody - and you do this with such authority and confidence - whether you like it or not, intend it or not, the result is that it can bring a sense of insecurity to those who have children (and parenting styles) who do not fit the mould.
Having gone through all this, I am now willing to speak up.

My kid is not like yours.

My kid doesn't fit the averaged out model of expected behaviour that you now hold as "normal" from your own years of experience.

No, my kid is not a "freak" or abnormal in any way.

"Maybe your kids are better/calmer/more cooperative than the rest of ours? Congratulations!"

And, no, I am not attributing any of those qualities to her either.

I know sarcasm when I see it. Even if it isn't sarcasm, there is nothing benign in those words, or genuine in the congratulations. It's basically an insult.

My personal needs and preferences as an adult traveller will almost certainly be different to yours, consistently so. If I pointed this out I don't believe you would respond with "Maybe you are better/calmer/more cooperative than the rest of us? Congratulations!". Yet you have chosen to use sarcasm when referring to my daughter. And you don't think that is snotty?

My hope is that by pointing out that your "my way is the best way" advice is not universally applicable to all families, others who are still finding their feet and feeling a little bemused about the fact that their own experiences don't match up with the expectations formed by common consensus will feel a little more confident about applying what actually works best for them, not what "should" work best for them.

My disagreeing with you was never meant to be an insult, you seem to have decided that it was. Perhaps that's why you thought I was being "snotty".

mkbkk1

+1

mkbkk1

With all due respect to the moderator...Yes, you are well traveled and have a lot of knowledge and experience in your 13 years. Just a gentle reminder that you don't need to validate yourself by touting your experience all the time. It will be apparent when you give sound advice without being judgmental.

Here is my two cents worth to parents who are traveling for the first time with a child...you know your child best. Weigh what your pediatrician and trusted experienced friends have to say. Seek advice and info here and plan but go with your instinct as a parent. You know your child best. It's on the job learning. We have all been there and if I see you in an airport dealing with a tired child having a meltdown...just know that I wish you well...I've been there and it too shall pass

6rugrats

It's rather unattractive when a board moderator resorts to name calling. Why not just agree to disagree? No need to act like a toddler.

petrogradian

Our experience with our three boys under five and multiple TATL runs with them is to get the flight after their bedtime. They'll stay up late more easily than go to bed early, and once they're asleep life is easier for everyone. My experience is also that the dinner service is faster on a late flight than on an early one, so the cabin gets dark and settles down to just wind and engine noise more quickly. We always minimize connections and other opportunities for stress with the kids and the flood of luggage that they entail, so I would not do the extended layover, but would instead take advantage of what will probably be an efficient mid-afternoon connection from the late night flight out of YVR (CX889?).

Good Luck!

Eclipsepearl

I was just quoting the original post.

I hope some parents appreciate the fact I'm sharing my experiences watching so many children flying. Of course we all know our children "best" but I saw too many families who also know their children "best" who had disastrous flights! I wouldn't say that they didn't know their children well enough but things can still go wrong!

I'm not the one acting like a "toddler". I'm just sharing what I know. I flew for 13 years. I'm not "touting it all the time". I'm just mentioning it. No harm in mentioning it, since I do so rarely.

By contrast, I saw some really organized parents and I took the time to talk to them, to find out what they suggested. A lot of what I learned was from other parents who had smooth flights.

Flying is unforgiving. If you forget to pack enough diapers at the park, you can usually run home early. If the daycare calls because they ran out of formula, you can usually run some over (or pick your child up early or whatever). If you run out of formula, diapers, wipes, etc. on an airplane, you're stuck! Inappropriate toys, overtired children, waking children up on take-off and having them cry when their ears weren't bothering them and they didn't want to drink... Those parents also "knew" their children best.

6rugrats

Delete

mkbkk1

I hope I am not coming across as confrontational in my post. I find that the moderator's posts are well informed when she sticks to things she knows (I.e,p. airline rules). The only point I am trying to make is that When it comes to giving advice on flying with children, most of us temper our advice with what works for us and that the OP knows what will work for their kids. We don't make blanket statements and assume based on the rarely mentioned years of experience that our way is the right way. If that's not the intention it comes across as such-again just my perspective. I thought moderators are supposed to moderate...

vicarious_MR'er

Yes. It's not cool to phrase things as "XYZ 'is what works best'" or product ABC is "not recommended" and such like that as though these are universal truths when they are anything BUT. Just saying "I've found that XYZ is a great strategy" or "I never had any luck with product ABC and preferred DEF instead" changes the tone completely.

rjque

I think it is well worth repeating that what works for many children will not necessarily work for your own children. I've flown about 75,000 miles on domestic US flights with my 23 month old, and each flight has been somewhat different. Some of the regular advice on this forum - baby carrier (Bjorn for us), just get her through the flight and adjust on the ground, most direct route - worked well when she was younger, but either don't work now or are not ideal now that she is older.

As an example, I recently flew ORD-PDX-HNL with her and purposefully scheduled an overnight in PDX to give her a chance to sleep in a real bed (at a grandparent's house) to help her adjust. I also kept her up for two hours past her bedtime on the flight, which probably wouldn't work well for most kids, but I know she can keep herself up without melting down. It was easy to do and I'm really glad I did this trip this way, because when we go to Hawaii she was able to adjust to the new time zone on the first day. It was only a five day trip, so the quick adjustment was really helpful.

choupeo

Hi everyone,

I really appreciate all your comments. I have just came back from a short Hawaii trip with my daughter and the experience from that trip also helps me making decisions about this summer trip. I do agree that every kid is different and as a mom I should know what works best for my kid. However, comments from FT fellows help me a lot to consider things and options to try. Kids can change a lot too. There was one time we had to take a 6am flight and my daughter (2.5y at that time) did great. To our surprise, she was so eager to get to the airport when being woken up at 4am. Therefore I tend to think that my daughter is fine waking up early in the morning. She is 3 now and when we had to take the 6am flight from Honolulu recently, she had a huge meltdown. I had to handle our suitcase, a hand carry-on (a backpack fortunately), a stroller and she only wanted to be carried. It was such a relief to be able to drag all the stuff to the check-in counter from the curb.

In the end, I decide not to do overnight layover so that we get to the destination as soon as possible. We will visit our relatives in SFO before the transpac flight so we will fly from SFO instead of YVR. We now have a more convenient departure time (~7:30 pm) thanks to that.

LapLap

And another insult, at least it's directed at me this time.

Yet all that I (and my daughter) have done to merit these remarks is to openly disagree with you. I pointed out that the sarcastic remark you used with regards to my daughter was (from my own point of view) a "snotty" comment, and explained why. Now I am being a "toddler".