Dovster

Randy, getting rid of invisibility does not address the question of shadowing another member. If someone is so inclined, he can do it by simply logging out. Then there will be no record of what he viewed.

And, for that matter, I don't see shadowing as a problem unless it is being done to harrass that member (eg: posting a negative reply whenever he says anything). Of course, if someone does do that the posts that he makes are proof of what he has done.

If what Mary2E has posted is correct ("for no apparent reason except to make it easy for the mods/admins to see when someone last logged in"), I again can not see the advantage in it. Why do mods/admins have to know when I last logged in? If I have not violated the TOS -- which would be impossible without my either posting or sending a particularly vile PM -- there is no need for anyone to know when I have been on line. If I have violated the TOS, my action itself provides the proof.

The last issue is the one you raised about a member ignoring a PM and claiming that he never got it. That is, of course, possible but to carry it off the member would have to effectively give himself a permanent ban.

I am in invisible mode right now. If I get a PM I will see it. If I claim not to, the simple fact that I made this post (which is time stamped) is proof that I was logged in. If I am willing never to post again just to ignore that PM I can not be doing anything which will cause the mods or admin any trouble.

Mary2e

Dov, unless I can't read any longer... this is Randy's post in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11581352-post32.html

uk1

If my impression is correct, most people that have expressed a strong feeling have expressed the wish to see the privacy mode re-installed - whereas no one has expressed a strong feeling against it. In fact isn't it accurate to say that every person who has expressed a strong feeling has wanted it's return?

This being so, can we have it back please?

Randy Petersen

Thanks Dov and certainly appreciate the reasonable information you have posted. Some or most of these thoughts have not been contained in the various threads -- which i posted in an above reply -- so it does bring some new information to the table and that's appreciated. As well, it's always appreciated if some members do read the back pages (hey, I fully appreciate that with the sad shape that search is in that there may be other threads i wasn't able to find) and pause at times to see the background from which some things are acted on. But given that some do not, I'll do my best to take into consideration yours and others feedback and balance that against the best interests of other members. Dov, you of all members know that the best interests of some members is not always the best interest of others and at times there are simply judgment calls as to whose best interest one goes with. Dies it absolutely mean that the other best interest' are not accounted for? Not really, it just means that you can please some of the members some of the time, but not all the members all the time. I'll still try and please most members all the time and I won't be distracted from that goal.

Here's a footnote that i included in a reply to another member yesterday by PM -- like many issues on FlyerTalk, I personally don't have any stake in it. I am totally ambivalent to the issue - preferring to remain quite independent and measuring any action in a balance of what is the best interests of various groups of members (yes, you all really don't think alike!) and the best interests of trying the manage a very popular meeting place on the Internet for the purpose of talking travel. So, please continue to discuss the issue and let the issue determine its future, not I. Thanks.

uk1

Randy, forgive me if I haven't followed the train of thought closely enough, but I haven't followed the opposing argument ie against invisible mode ie those you refer to as "other members". All I've seen is the argument that there was no previous argument either way.

Could you just summarise what group is arguing against invisible mode with their objection please?

MikeMpls

My use of similar features goes back 30+ years to the PLATO systems developed by the University of Illinois & Control Data. Appearing in the user list was an option that first had to be enabled by the administrator (group/course owner) creating the signon and then turned on when the user explicitly allowed himself to appear in the system-wide user list. Privacy was a paramount consideration in all aspects of the development of that system.

My preference then and now largely has been NOT to appear on- or off-line to anyone who doesn't really need to know. Even fewer people need to know when I was last active. On PLATO, for example, that information was available only to group administrators who created/deleted signons and to certain operations & systems personnel, whose access might often be logged.

Likewise on FT I'm basically always on but often working. Others have no need to be aware of my presence (mods & admins excepted).

I see the date & time of last activity as really two issues.

#1 is that it's none of anybody else's business (again, mods & admins excepted). I believe vBulletin allows the very fine-tuning of what is shown publicly in a profile. The date & time of one's last activity should be unflagged. There's a completely different interface where mods & admins can still view user information.

#2 is that I would view the failure to update the date & time of last activity for invisible users as a bug that should be fixed. It could be fixed via local mods, but since IB also now owns vBulletin, let them have at it through their own channels.

Randy Petersen

Appreciate the feedback from any number of members here and there were certainly some points that as noted, had not come out from previously posted threads on the topic. That's a positive reason why I have a forum for Only Randy Petersen and why I have and do try to see and read other issues elsewhere on FlyerTalk.

Anyway, I really had no particular ownership in this issue, rather as we do with many things, try to balance the various needs of many different groups of members and as such, have just instructed the tech on the admin side of things to revert and make the invisible mode available again for all members. Some of you may have to log out and log back in but within a few minutes of this post, things should be back to normal for this particular issue. As with other items, I always welcome reasonable feedback to the topic on hand and it can make a difference.

Thanks and we'll see you online.

NOTE: For those that for whatever reason thought that there was some sort of purposeful attempt to treat various members differently than others regarding this -- land the black helicopter and take off the single vision helmet and maybe, just maybe consider that the issue was more related to the very real tech problems that plagued FlyerTalk lately. Last night FT was closed for a few hours as several maintenance issues were being addressed by Internet Brands and it seems that many (perhaps not all) of the tech issues -- including Search have been corrected or at least leave us in much better working condition than over the past few days. Just a thought!

HIDDY

Thank you - a popular decision I would say. ^

uncertaintraveler

Thank you.

lin821

Thanks, Randy! Good to see it back as a universal option for all members.

linsj

Thanks, Randy. I appreciate you listening to us.

N830MH

I agree. I think he done it very good job for fixing the site and appreciated it for his contribute.

FlyinHawaiian

Status lights are now showing red for some posters; what does that mean?

Dovster

Mere mortal posters can only see a red light for themselves (if they are in the invisible mode) but perhaps moderators can see them for other posters.

Mary2e

I suspect the moderators can now see invisible posters where in the past they could not.

I guess that means people are invisible to everyone but moderators.