Should the TalkBoard votes be held in public?
Jan 18, 2012, 6:05 pm
#31
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I think it's very alarming that
a) TB members cannot be trusted to uphold their own rules
b) TB members will come up with all kinds of justifications to justify their rule breaches.
Koko - did you ask Spiff for his permission to copy a picture of his post into this forum? Did you ask Carol's permission? If you did not, then you are in clear breach of the rules. You may not quote what he says in private without his or Carol's permission. End of. You have quoted it. You have broken TB privacy rules. It doesn't matter what is said - it's the fact you did it.
If you sought his permission, I'll be happy to apologise and agree this was not a rule breach. But absent you seeking permission, this is a rule breach.
It's the attitude towards rules. And that does have a very clear corollary towards moderation. If TB members cannot police themselves to stay within the rules by which they have to abide, they have no right to believe they are fit to have any say in moderator decisions. Why should I take direction as a moderator from someone who shows such scant disregard for the rules themselves? 
And it's really sad. This rule-breaking - and your refusal to acknowledge that there has been a clear rule breach - is derailing discussion on what should have been a good idea.
a) TB members cannot be trusted to uphold their own rules
b) TB members will come up with all kinds of justifications to justify their rule breaches.
Koko - did you ask Spiff for his permission to copy a picture of his post into this forum? Did you ask Carol's permission? If you did not, then you are in clear breach of the rules. You may not quote what he says in private without his or Carol's permission. End of. You have quoted it. You have broken TB privacy rules. It doesn't matter what is said - it's the fact you did it.
If you sought his permission, I'll be happy to apologise and agree this was not a rule breach. But absent you seeking permission, this is a rule breach.
Originally Posted by RichMSN
This has nothing to do with moderation, either.
And it's really sad. This rule-breaking - and your refusal to acknowledge that there has been a clear rule breach - is derailing discussion on what should have been a good idea.
Jan 18, 2012, 6:07 pm
#32
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I have to say I love this suggestion... a brilliant sugguestion made by that wharvey guy.... 
Seriously, I believe this allows more transparency... and provides us general members more information on how we are being represented.
Seriously, I believe this allows more transparency... and provides us general members more information on how we are being represented.
Jan 18, 2012, 6:26 pm
#33
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Would you kindly focus on the issue at hand so I am not forced to report your off topic posts to the forum moderator. Because by failing to stick to the topic you are committing a TOS violation. You know, the rules that you are sworn to uphold as a moderator. If you cannot police yourself to stay within the rules by which you have to abide, we have no right to believe you are fit to have any say in moderator decisions. Why should I take moderation from someone who shows such scant disregard [sic?] for the rules themselves?
See, nit-pickery is a double edged sword. @:-)
Seriously, though, if you want to talk about kicking me off the TB or moderation or whatever, start a new thread.
Jan 18, 2012, 6:27 pm
#34
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I think some people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. The only insider info I've learned is that the private forums have banner ads.
EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that kokonutz posted the same time as me, asking to keep this thread on topic.
EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that kokonutz posted the same time as me, asking to keep this thread on topic.
Last edited by N965VJ; Jan 18, 2012 at 6:51 pm
Jan 18, 2012, 6:38 pm
#35
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Did Koko seek Carol or Spiff's consent? If he did not, then it's a breach of the rules. Now, I happen to think this is nowhere near as malicious as some other breaches I am aware of. The information is nothing really interesting or exciting. That does not stop it being a rule breach.
Great idea, btw. ^
Jan 18, 2012, 6:43 pm
#36
Join Date: Feb 2000
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The only one derailing the discussion is you.
Would you kindly focus on the issue at hand so I am not forced to report your off topic posts to the forum moderator. Because by failing to stick to the topic you are committing a TOS violation. You know, the rules that you are sworn to uphold as a moderator. If you cannot police yourself to stay within the rules by which you have to abide, we have no right to believe you are fit to have any say in moderator decisions. Why should I take moderation from someone who shows such scant disregard [sic?] for the rules themselves?
See, nit-pickery is a double edged sword. @:-)
Seriously, though, if you want to talk about kicking me off the TB or moderation or whatever, start a new thread.
Would you kindly focus on the issue at hand so I am not forced to report your off topic posts to the forum moderator. Because by failing to stick to the topic you are committing a TOS violation. You know, the rules that you are sworn to uphold as a moderator. If you cannot police yourself to stay within the rules by which you have to abide, we have no right to believe you are fit to have any say in moderator decisions. Why should I take moderation from someone who shows such scant disregard [sic?] for the rules themselves?
See, nit-pickery is a double edged sword. @:-)
Seriously, though, if you want to talk about kicking me off the TB or moderation or whatever, start a new thread.
Jan 18, 2012, 7:12 pm
#37
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I think it's very alarming that
a) TB members cannot be trusted to uphold their own rules
b) TB members will come up with all kinds of justifications to justify their rule breaches.
Koko - did you ask Spiff for his permission to copy a picture of his post into this forum? Did you ask Carol's permission? If you did not, then you are in clear breach of the rules. You may not quote what he says in private without his or Carol's permission. End of. You have quoted it. You have broken TB privacy rules. It doesn't matter what is said - it's the fact you did it.
If you sought his permission, I'll be happy to apologise and agree this was not a rule breach. But absent you seeking permission, this is a rule breach.
It's the attitude towards rules. And that does have a very clear corollary towards moderation. If TB members cannot police themselves to stay within the rules by which they have to abide, they have no right to believe they are fit to have any say in moderator decisions. Why should I take direction as a moderator from someone who shows such scant disregard for the rules themselves?
And it's really sad. This rule-breaking - and your refusal to acknowledge that there has been a clear rule breach - is derailing discussion on what should have been a good idea.
a) TB members cannot be trusted to uphold their own rules
b) TB members will come up with all kinds of justifications to justify their rule breaches.
Koko - did you ask Spiff for his permission to copy a picture of his post into this forum? Did you ask Carol's permission? If you did not, then you are in clear breach of the rules. You may not quote what he says in private without his or Carol's permission. End of. You have quoted it. You have broken TB privacy rules. It doesn't matter what is said - it's the fact you did it.
If you sought his permission, I'll be happy to apologise and agree this was not a rule breach. But absent you seeking permission, this is a rule breach.
It's the attitude towards rules. And that does have a very clear corollary towards moderation. If TB members cannot police themselves to stay within the rules by which they have to abide, they have no right to believe they are fit to have any say in moderator decisions. Why should I take direction as a moderator from someone who shows such scant disregard for the rules themselves?
And it's really sad. This rule-breaking - and your refusal to acknowledge that there has been a clear rule breach - is derailing discussion on what should have been a good idea.
Should not a moderator, granted authority to enforce these rules in others, not adhere to a higher standard themselves?
Jan 18, 2012, 9:10 pm
#38
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it seems to me the only reason to have private TB forum would be if different TOS applies
(until such a time that TB is voting on issues more "emotionally" complex than creating forums etc)
maybe im missing something, but Spiff didnt "say" anything in pictured post? its TB "legalese" that was subsequently posted publicly verbatim, all according to standard operating procedure.
ah, one thing is that it was posted 1 day before this thread was created publicly >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...xas-forum.html
(until such a time that TB is voting on issues more "emotionally" complex than creating forums etc)
maybe im missing something, but Spiff didnt "say" anything in pictured post? its TB "legalese" that was subsequently posted publicly verbatim, all according to standard operating procedure.
ah, one thing is that it was posted 1 day before this thread was created publicly >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...xas-forum.html
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Jan 18, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Jan 18, 2012, 11:31 pm
#39
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It's the attitude towards rules. And that does have a very clear corollary towards moderation. If TB members cannot police themselves to stay within the rules by which they have to abide, they have no right to believe they are fit to have any say in moderator decisions. Why should I take direction as a moderator from someone who shows such scant disregard for the rules themselves?
And it's really sad. This rule-breaking - and your refusal to acknowledge that there has been a clear rule breach - is derailing discussion on what should have been a good idea.
And it's really sad. This rule-breaking - and your refusal to acknowledge that there has been a clear rule breach - is derailing discussion on what should have been a good idea.
So with that said, let's stay on topic, shall we?
Jan 18, 2012, 11:32 pm
#40
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it seems to me the only reason to have private TB forum would be if different TOS applies
(until such a time that TB is voting on issues more "emotionally" complex than creating forums etc)
maybe im missing something, but Spiff didnt "say" anything in pictured post? its TB "legalese" that was subsequently posted publicly verbatim, all according to standard operating procedure.
ah, one thing is that it was posted 1 day before this thread was created publicly >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...xas-forum.html
(until such a time that TB is voting on issues more "emotionally" complex than creating forums etc)
maybe im missing something, but Spiff didnt "say" anything in pictured post? its TB "legalese" that was subsequently posted publicly verbatim, all according to standard operating procedure.
ah, one thing is that it was posted 1 day before this thread was created publicly >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...xas-forum.html
Jan 18, 2012, 11:41 pm
#41
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Good idea !^
Jan 19, 2012, 3:46 am
#42
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BTW - this post shows most clearly I am not the only one derailing. Afterall, I first responded to a comment by RichMSN
Strange, how the anti-moderation crowd cannot see a problem with the rules being broken. Perhaps we start to see to the heart of their problem with moderation?
Jan 19, 2012, 4:36 am
#43
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Jen, I've had high regard for a lot of things that you've posted over the years, and while I don't always agree, I've respected your opinion.
That said, if Spiff or anyone else (including you) had a problem with what was posted in post #1 of this thread, then the procedure is to do what any other FT member would do and hit the red triangle to report it or PM the proper authorities. It would then be Carol's or Craig's job to determine whether there was a breach of the TB rules and take care of it. I appreciate that you think you are trying to be the TB police here, but even though you are a moderator, you are not in charge of this forum or any other except for CBuzz and Virgin.
And yes, I would admit that RichMSN was the first to mention it, so you felt compelled to respond. But you of all people should know what the protocol is to report things that you don't think are right. Airing them out in the open as you have is NOT the way to do it.
That said, if Spiff or anyone else (including you) had a problem with what was posted in post #1 of this thread, then the procedure is to do what any other FT member would do and hit the red triangle to report it or PM the proper authorities. It would then be Carol's or Craig's job to determine whether there was a breach of the TB rules and take care of it. I appreciate that you think you are trying to be the TB police here, but even though you are a moderator, you are not in charge of this forum or any other except for CBuzz and Virgin.
And yes, I would admit that RichMSN was the first to mention it, so you felt compelled to respond. But you of all people should know what the protocol is to report things that you don't think are right. Airing them out in the open as you have is NOT the way to do it.
Jan 19, 2012, 6:58 am
#44
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So ANYWAY....back to the original post's topic....
I have come to learn that it may be the case that the poll technology can only allow posters to view the vote counts live. That only admins can click on the number to see who voted how. If that's the case, then perhaps the only way to have full voting information live is to do the voting via posts in a separate voting sub-forum or perhaps in the town hall forum.
So until we can verify how the poll feature would work in real life, I guess the most productive use of this thread is to talk about what is important:
- Seeing votes tallied live
- Seeing who votes how live
- Both
- Neither, keeping the votes and roll call secret until voting ends (either after 2 weeks or after all 9 TB members vote, whichever comes first).
- Something else?
And, again, if you want to talk about me or moderation or TB guidelines (whether it is to pillory me or defend me), please, PM me or Carol or Craig or start a new thread.
I have come to learn that it may be the case that the poll technology can only allow posters to view the vote counts live. That only admins can click on the number to see who voted how. If that's the case, then perhaps the only way to have full voting information live is to do the voting via posts in a separate voting sub-forum or perhaps in the town hall forum.
So until we can verify how the poll feature would work in real life, I guess the most productive use of this thread is to talk about what is important:
- Seeing votes tallied live
- Seeing who votes how live
- Both
- Neither, keeping the votes and roll call secret until voting ends (either after 2 weeks or after all 9 TB members vote, whichever comes first).
- Something else?
And, again, if you want to talk about me or moderation or TB guidelines (whether it is to pillory me or defend me), please, PM me or Carol or Craig or start a new thread.
Jan 19, 2012, 7:29 am
#45
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Thank you Koko for bringing this back to the topic of: Should the TalkBoard votes be held in public?
