Should login be required for access to Mistake Fares?
Dec 5, 2011, 3:25 am
#32
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"Should login be required for access to Mistake Fares?"
No.
If the idea were to try to protect deals posted on FT from being shut down by companies offering the deals, it's ineffective in a variety of ways. For example, company representatives, including those solicited by FT "management" types, already are present as members on FT; and there are company apologists who would have access anyway as is the case already and wouldn't necessarily work toward keeping the deal alive. Then there are the bloggers who have access in one or more ways.
If the idea is something else, still my answer remains "no" to the thread's headline question.
There are plenty of airline deals posted on FT which the DOT could take issue with if if not honored, but given the DOT is such an industry patsy, whether or not the deal is posted on FT doesn't absolutely make or break matters in a regulatory or legal sense.
No.
If the idea were to try to protect deals posted on FT from being shut down by companies offering the deals, it's ineffective in a variety of ways. For example, company representatives, including those solicited by FT "management" types, already are present as members on FT; and there are company apologists who would have access anyway as is the case already and wouldn't necessarily work toward keeping the deal alive. Then there are the bloggers who have access in one or more ways.
If the idea is something else, still my answer remains "no" to the thread's headline question.
There are plenty of airline deals posted on FT which the DOT could take issue with if if not honored, but given the DOT is such an industry patsy, whether or not the deal is posted on FT doesn't absolutely make or break matters in a regulatory or legal sense.
Dec 5, 2011, 3:44 am
#33
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So what is the login requirement going to achieve?
- the DOT not seeing that 'canny exploiters' are on to the mistake fare?
The DOT can ask for the records if an airline mentions it during a hearing.
- the airlines/ travel providers not seeing the mistake fare?
Give me a break the majors are all signed up as company representatives and even have 180+ posts, so they could even subscribe to the forum to get minute by minute updates from FT itself
With the plethora of bloggers today a 'secret' deal will be spread within minutes since they want to show that they know what others don't
All for a few clicks on a (credit card) ad.
BTW, any decent airline has a daily report for each market that reports all newly filed fares in major GDS that deviate by more than x % from the previous version. A contact at LH showed me the table he had and my eyes started popping and he must have noticed my raised heartbeat when he showed me all the deviations of the day. I remember a ABQ-PAR C fare that had dropped by 1000$ over at AA due to some bug.
Bottom line I would say the deals have become rarer because the airlines are now getting better with the advent of online booking portals that cannot we voided retroactively like it was 10 years ago by threatening a TA with an ADM.
- the DOT not seeing that 'canny exploiters' are on to the mistake fare?
The DOT can ask for the records if an airline mentions it during a hearing.
- the airlines/ travel providers not seeing the mistake fare?
Give me a break the majors are all signed up as company representatives and even have 180+ posts, so they could even subscribe to the forum to get minute by minute updates from FT itself
With the plethora of bloggers today a 'secret' deal will be spread within minutes since they want to show that they know what others don't
All for a few clicks on a (credit card) ad.BTW, any decent airline has a daily report for each market that reports all newly filed fares in major GDS that deviate by more than x % from the previous version. A contact at LH showed me the table he had and my eyes started popping and he must have noticed my raised heartbeat when he showed me all the deviations of the day. I remember a ABQ-PAR C fare that had dropped by 1000$ over at AA due to some bug.
Bottom line I would say the deals have become rarer because the airlines are now getting better with the advent of online booking portals that cannot we voided retroactively like it was 10 years ago by threatening a TA with an ADM.
What this means is that FTers have to get faster to get in on a deal rather than hope an FT deal forum being restricted to search bots or what not is going to make a substantial difference.
US DOT is not my concern as they have bigger things with which to be concerned when it comes to fares than what gets posted in public on FT or not.
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 5, 2011 at 4:28 am
Dec 5, 2011, 4:10 am
#34
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"Should login be required for access to Mistake Fares?"
No.
If the idea were to try to protect deals posted on FT from being shut down by companies offering the deals, it's ineffective in a variety of ways. For example, company representatives, including those solicited by FT "management" types, already are present as members on FT; and there are company apologists who would have access anyway as is the case already and wouldn't necessarily work toward keeping the deal alive. Then there are the bloggers who have access in one or more ways.
If the idea is something else, still my answer remains "no" to the thread's headline question.
There are plenty of airline deals posted on FT which the DOT could take issue with if if not honored, but given the DOT is such an industry patsy, whether or not the deal is posted on FT doesn't absolutely make or break matters in a regulatory or legal sense.
No.
If the idea were to try to protect deals posted on FT from being shut down by companies offering the deals, it's ineffective in a variety of ways. For example, company representatives, including those solicited by FT "management" types, already are present as members on FT; and there are company apologists who would have access anyway as is the case already and wouldn't necessarily work toward keeping the deal alive. Then there are the bloggers who have access in one or more ways.
If the idea is something else, still my answer remains "no" to the thread's headline question.
There are plenty of airline deals posted on FT which the DOT could take issue with if if not honored, but given the DOT is such an industry patsy, whether or not the deal is posted on FT doesn't absolutely make or break matters in a regulatory or legal sense.
That said, I agree that it will likely have minimal effect on DOT/Airlines/etc.
Dec 5, 2011, 5:51 am
#35
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Some of the best travel deals and information fundamental to travel deals I've gotten from FT are due to those FT members whom wouldn't have had CC access then or even still. I won't go into this aspect of it more than that, but I see nothing for me to gain from MR Deals being restricted like CC and/or OMNI.
I say this from the vantage point of having no doubt that there are not many on FT whom have gained as much as I have from the "mistake fares" posted on FT.
Dec 5, 2011, 7:06 am
#36
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I would hope we would not restrict access for our members to those forums.
I believe they are what bring many new members to our board, who decide to stay.
In addition, several "newer" members have posted great deals that I have taken advantage of... and for that I say "THANK YOU".
I could see requiring members to be logged in to see the forum... if that is possible. But, I do not think we should restrict "core" forums from our members. I believe that the MR forums are different than CC and OMNI.
I believe they are what bring many new members to our board, who decide to stay.
In addition, several "newer" members have posted great deals that I have taken advantage of... and for that I say "THANK YOU".
I could see requiring members to be logged in to see the forum... if that is possible. But, I do not think we should restrict "core" forums from our members. I believe that the MR forums are different than CC and OMNI.
Dec 5, 2011, 8:06 pm
#37
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"Should login be required for access to Mistake Fares?"
No.
If the idea were to try to protect deals posted on FT from being shut down by companies offering the deals, it's ineffective in a variety of ways. For example, company representatives, including those solicited by FT "management" types, already are present as members on FT; and there are company apologists who would have access anyway as is the case already and wouldn't necessarily work toward keeping the deal alive. Then there are the bloggers who have access in one or more ways.
If the idea is something else, still my answer remains "no" to the thread's headline question.
There are plenty of airline deals posted on FT which the DOT could take issue with if if not honored, but given the DOT is such an industry patsy, whether or not the deal is posted on FT doesn't absolutely make or break matters in a regulatory or legal sense.
No.
If the idea were to try to protect deals posted on FT from being shut down by companies offering the deals, it's ineffective in a variety of ways. For example, company representatives, including those solicited by FT "management" types, already are present as members on FT; and there are company apologists who would have access anyway as is the case already and wouldn't necessarily work toward keeping the deal alive. Then there are the bloggers who have access in one or more ways.
If the idea is something else, still my answer remains "no" to the thread's headline question.
There are plenty of airline deals posted on FT which the DOT could take issue with if if not honored, but given the DOT is such an industry patsy, whether or not the deal is posted on FT doesn't absolutely make or break matters in a regulatory or legal sense.
The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that FT will have to adjust to the new reality.. trasnparency is norm and key, good or bad.. We shouldn't be restricting information from flowing.. Especially the deals that appear regularly here on FT.
Dec 5, 2011, 8:14 pm
#38
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I think you're confusing two distinct ideas; a.) requiring members be signed in to view MR Deals forum and b.) possibly having a new rule that members must meet posting criteria before getting access to that forum. I support a.) but not b.)
Dec 5, 2011, 8:49 pm
#39
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Its getting the deal posted in the first place, and the public and/or FT member finding the forum would impose a layer of difficulty getting the deal deposited and posted onto the forum for the viewing members (and to the correct place).
If there is a public member wanting to post a deal.. and don't know about the hidden forum.. it would be less likely that the deal would be posted.. This would be the difficulty of adding access to the deal.. is simply getting the deals to where its accessible..
User friendliness goes a long ways.. I suppose there could be 24/7 mods viewing deal postings.. when a juicy fruit one appears.. off it goes to the secret forum.. but how maneagable would that be?
Dec 6, 2011, 8:51 am
#40
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To clarify.. I'm not saying that the posting criteria should be met..
Its getting the deal posted in the first place, and the public and/or FT member finding the forum would impose a layer of difficulty getting the deal deposited and posted onto the forum for the viewing members (and to the correct place).
If there is a public member wanting to post a deal.. and don't know about the hidden forum.. it would be less likely that the deal would be posted.. This would be the difficulty of adding access to the deal.. is simply getting the deals to where its accessible..
User friendliness goes a long ways.. I suppose there could be 24/7 mods viewing deal postings.. when a juicy fruit one appears.. off it goes to the secret forum.. but how maneagable would that be?
Its getting the deal posted in the first place, and the public and/or FT member finding the forum would impose a layer of difficulty getting the deal deposited and posted onto the forum for the viewing members (and to the correct place).
If there is a public member wanting to post a deal.. and don't know about the hidden forum.. it would be less likely that the deal would be posted.. This would be the difficulty of adding access to the deal.. is simply getting the deals to where its accessible..
User friendliness goes a long ways.. I suppose there could be 24/7 mods viewing deal postings.. when a juicy fruit one appears.. off it goes to the secret forum.. but how maneagable would that be?
I do think sagy makes a valid point.
"I'm amazed that anyone is against the login requirement. The argument that mistake fares making lurkers into members is simply false. If I can get all the information as a lurker and I have no intend to post, I'm not going to become a member; if I intend to post, I'm going to become a member anyway. The odds of someone randomly landing on the mileage run forum on FT, finding a mistake fare and registering because of it are low. The odds of someone who is interested in MR registering in order to have access to such a forum are high in today's world, they'll just keep lurking and might never register."
Cheers.
Dec 6, 2011, 10:02 am
#41
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Dec 6, 2011, 10:06 am
#42
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Dec 7, 2011, 2:57 pm
#43
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What would the point of that be? The forum would be empty. I think that would have a worse effect: unregistered people would believe there's a place to post that information on FT--but nobody is. At that point, it seems better to just make the entire forum hidden.
Last edited by jackal; Dec 7, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Dec 8, 2011, 12:13 am
#44
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I don't think it's a hardship to be registered/logged in. And do you really think that the 5 seconds it takes is really going to delay a deal getting posted? FWIW - I think FT members who are interested in mileage runs already know how to find the forum & probably have it bookmarked in "My Flyertalk"
I do think sagy makes a valid point.
"I'm amazed that anyone is against the login requirement. The argument that mistake fares making lurkers into members is simply false. If I can get all the information as a lurker and I have no intend to post, I'm not going to become a member; if I intend to post, I'm going to become a member anyway. The odds of someone randomly landing on the mileage run forum on FT, finding a mistake fare and registering because of it are low. The odds of someone who is interested in MR registering in order to have access to such a forum are high in today's world, they'll just keep lurking and might never register."
Cheers.
I do think sagy makes a valid point.
"I'm amazed that anyone is against the login requirement. The argument that mistake fares making lurkers into members is simply false. If I can get all the information as a lurker and I have no intend to post, I'm not going to become a member; if I intend to post, I'm going to become a member anyway. The odds of someone randomly landing on the mileage run forum on FT, finding a mistake fare and registering because of it are low. The odds of someone who is interested in MR registering in order to have access to such a forum are high in today's world, they'll just keep lurking and might never register."
Cheers.
For example, when scanning quickly over the topics, if it takes extra time and research to locate the appropriate forum, i.e. having to login to see the forums.. Than that deal is less likely to get posted..
AFAIK, competition from other travel forums is immense.. so there is merit to offering information unadulterated, to encourage users to come back because FT is easy to use..
Chicken or the egg?
Dec 8, 2011, 12:16 am
#45
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A login seems reasonable.. but even a login provides that extra bit of barrier that may discourage the person with the deal from posting on FT!
For example, when scanning quickly over the topics, if it takes extra time and research to locate the appropriate forum, i.e. having to login to see the forums.. Than that deal is less likely to get posted..
For example, when scanning quickly over the topics, if it takes extra time and research to locate the appropriate forum, i.e. having to login to see the forums.. Than that deal is less likely to get posted..