I understand the hotel says that in advance so I wouldn't be surprised when it happened. I am conscious about this and cancel well in advance.
However, it seems that if I make a reservation using points and don't show up, the fair thing would be to take whatever the hotel would have received if I had been there. Rack rates are often outrageous. Sure Starwood can get away with it and they tell you they will, but I wonder why they are not more customer friendly in this area. They were expecting x revenue for the award stay and they should get it, not charge the customer a lot more.
Because it is a revenue management issue for the hotels and we tell you in advance that the hotels are going to take the cash instead of the points.
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Fair enough, but guests have EXPENSE management issues!
If I have any doubts about arriving that day, I don't book a *W award stay.
Because it is a revenue management issue for the hotels and we tell you in advance that the hotels are going to take the cash instead of the points.
Not trying to be picky or get into a lot of symantics, but how exactly is this a "revenue management" issue? The hotel has already agreed to take the points, and whatever associated reimbursement they get from *wood. While this revenue management decision has been made for them in a sense, it is the price they pay for enjoying the many benefits of being a *wood property.
So what changes once the guest cancels? The only conclusion that I can reach is that some properties have apparently decided to try to squeeze more out of guests who have to cancel at the last minute. Not make themselves whole, or protect the existing revenue stream, but exact a punative penalty. How am I wrong about this?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirecca
. . . The only conclusion that I can reach is that some properties have apparently decided to try to squeeze more out of guests who have to cancel at the last minute. Not make themselves whole, or protect the existing revenue stream, but exact a punative penalty. How am I wrong about this?
I think you're right on the money.
It's no different than if you were to book a cheap promotional rate at $x amount, which the hotel agreed to accept at the time of reservation. Then you cancel too late and they charge you the rack rate for not showing up -- justified because the pentalty was in the fine print. They don't do this with revenue stays, but the principle is exactly the same.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirecca
Not trying to be picky or get into a lot of symantics, but how exactly is this a "revenue management" issue? The hotel has already agreed to take the points, and whatever associated reimbursement they get from *wood. While this revenue management decision has been made for them in a sense, it is the price they pay for enjoying the many benefits of being a *wood property.
So what changes once the guest cancels? The only conclusion that I can reach is that some properties have apparently decided to try to squeeze more out of guests who have to cancel at the last minute. Not make themselves whole, or protect the existing revenue stream, but exact a punative penalty. How am I wrong about this?
You know...it is fairly obvious that we are never going to agree in regard to pickiness or semantics, but here goes anyway...
If a hotel sells out and asks us to pay them their full ADR instead of the usual reimbursement scale, they have to prove that you actually stayed. Ever try to produce a folio for someone who didn't? No folio = no extra reimbursement = revenue management issue for the hotel. So, they're going to take your money instead.
We can't read tea leaves and know when a hotel will sell out or what a hotel's full ADR is going to be if they do and you need to be told an amount of money to expect to have to surrender if you don't cancel on time should they do so.
So the cancellation penalty is what it is for every other paid rate at the time you were supposed to stay and that is the end of the story.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
So if I book say a AAA rate and I don't show up I get charged the full rack rate?
I thought if I have a reservation and don't show, I got charged one night at whatever rate the reservation was for. In the case of a no show awards stay, wouldn't the hotel get whatever they were due for that reservation? If the hotel was full and there was a no show for points, why wouldn't they get their full ADR?
I'm really just trying to understand here. I can see where the hotel is coming from if they can't get paid what they're due if I had shown up. It just seems like everyone should get their due if there's a no-show and that event should be treated the same as if a customer did show up - customer loses points, hotels get their due as if the customer had shown up, SPG does their normal accounting, etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emuyshondt
So if I book say a AAA rate and I don't show up I get charged the full rack rate?
I thought if I have a reservation and don't show, I got charged one night at whatever rate the reservation was for. In the case of a no show awards stay, wouldn't the hotel get whatever they were due for that reservation? If the hotel was full and there was a no show for points, why wouldn't they get their full ADR?
They have to produce a folio for reimbursement. If you do not show up, no folio is going to be forthcoming, so they will lose the revenue they could have had.
Quote:
I'm really just trying to understand here. I can see where the hotel is coming from if they can't get paid what they're due if I had shown up. It just seems like everyone should get their due if there's a no-show and that event should be treated the same as if a customer did show up - customer loses points, hotels get their due as if the customer had shown up, SPG does their normal accounting, etc.
Frankly, I'm done here. We are just going to have to agree to disagree, but the policy is what it is. Feel free to discuss the merits or demerits of it amongst yourselves, but leave me out of the discussion going forward.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
I'm not disagreeing. I just want to understand the thought process for not treating a no-show as a standard stay, with all the associated charges to everybody involved. I'm not asking for a change, just an explanation/clarification.
For my future reference: If I book a room at a reduced rate but don't show, will I be charged and ADR or some other higher rate than my reservation for the no-show?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emuyshondt
I'm not disagreeing. I just want to understand the thought process for not treating a no-show as a standard stay, with all the associated charges to everybody involved. I'm not asking for a change, just an explanation/clarification.
Well, I can't give one any better than I already have, so it will have to suffice.
Quote:
For my future reference: If I book a room at a reduced rate but don't show, will I be charged and ADR or some other higher rate than my reservation for the no-show?
No, I think you are going to be charged the same no show cancellation fee you were advised when you made the paid reservation, just like you will be for the award reservation. That's why we tell you what the terms are in advance...so you can have some confidence in what to expect.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
No, I think you are going to be charged the same no show cancellation fee you were advised when you made the paid reservation, just like you will be for the award reservation. That's why we tell you what the terms are in advance...so you can have some confidence in what to expect.
Thanks for your responsiveness so far William, and if you don't want to participate anymore that's okay....
William twice indicated that paid and points stays are treated the "same," but it seems to me that this answer verifies that this is not the case.
I don't know about anyone else, but I never been lucky enough book an award when the hotel was charging rack rate to paying guests. That means the value of the points that I redeemed are precisely equal to the prevailing rate at the time of booking. Let's say rack rate is $250, prevailing rate is $150. The value of the points I redeemed is $150. In the case of a no show, the paying guest is charged $150 but I would be charged $250. More than the value of the points when I made the reservation.
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My experience
On a trip last year using an hotel award, my flight was diverted due to a typhoon. Needless to say, we were not able to make it to the hotel on the day we expected to, but 2 days later. I called the platinum concierge and explained my predicament, who then phoned the hotel (I think this was around 11pm, the night we were expected to arrive, so well after cancellation deadline). Not only were we not charged the rack rate cancellation fee, but were not charged any points either. So, all in all a good experience. YMMV.
Regarding the potential charging of rack rate fees to the customer, this would seem to be a customer hostile policy. If a customer, in good faith agrees to a points fee of X per night, but then charged X+Y if cancels/no shows, it seems quite punitive. I understand the argument which William is making about the hotel having a revenue management problem, but it seems to me that SPG and the hotel is shifting the problem to the customer - can't SPG and the hotel figure out some way to handle this between themselves (e.g. sliding scale of reimbursement, depending on actual occupancy rate on the dates in question)? This would probably take a herculean IT / systems effort, and given the state of the website, I don't have much effort in SPG getting it right.
Not sure how often this is enforced, but seems like one of the less desirable aspects of the program.
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wow!
i think its really crap that you will be billed rack rate.
i am sure that my amex in this case will pay for my extra expenses or the airline which caused the delay, but still there is a bitter aftertaste as SPG should pay the hotel the same price as the guest have been there.
so william says that the points on day A are more valuable to the hotel than on day b, because the more occupancy the hotel reports the more it gets for a reward booking.
even airlines do not bill you FULL FARE Y if you miss your award flight.
This is clearly a bad customer service policy as the guest who do not show up is punished.
the hotel should report the no-show, should report the room occupany and should be reimbursed the amount of money it would have gotten if the customer showed up.
@ William
thank you for your answers and the closer look into the SPG-hotel system.
but i think that you do agree with us that BILLING RACKRATE to a customer who couldnt show UP, is a very unfriendly policy and even it doesnt happen so often, and if the hotel is called usually the hotel changes the dates free etc. the ONE case in which a customer is forced to pay rackrate, this will lead to a lost Customer and a very bad mouth to mouth propaganda for starwood.
i understand that you have to answer the way you do about this issue, but commonsense (from a customer view) is not applied to this policy.
This is an internal Problem of the SPG revenue managment and it is not right that the customer has to burry this crap.
anyway, i understand why it is done this way, but clearly the way how SPG manage this , could be improved .
i never had a problem as a platinum when i had to cancel after the deadline , hotel did change the dates or worked some magic, but i am not sure if members with no status will get the same good treatment i got.
anyway, i never had a problem for a stay if i showed up one day later.
i.e i missed my flight and arrived the next day . hotel had me already checked in .
but now that i know i will be billed rack rate if the hotel doesnt work out something for me, there is one more thing to worry about on my travel.. .
Last edited by derpelikan; Jul 25, 07 at 9:11 pm..
I can understand (but not like) the cancel policy being cash not points, however I have an issue with it being at the rack rate when at the time of booking, it's very likely much cheaper options were available. Why does the room value suddenly go up, potentially exponentially, just because of a no-show?
