C'mon SWA tighten up on preboard screening
May 31, 2017, 5:41 am
#61
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I think if some of these threads are any indication, some people have exactly one favorite seat on the plane and if they don't get it (whether a preboarder takes it, a thru passenger takes it, someone else saved it, whatever), their trip is ruined and then the next day we have the usual "preboarder scam" threads or "EBCI is a ripoff" threads...
May 31, 2017, 8:20 am
#62
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It's like the old, "but it's just my opinion." Yeah, we know it's an opinion. We also can agree or disagree with opinions; it's kind of their function.
May 31, 2017, 9:11 am
#63
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I think if some of these threads are any indication, some people have exactly one favorite seat on the plane and if they don't get it (whether a preboarder takes it, a thru passenger takes it, someone else saved it, whatever), their trip is ruined and then the next day we have the usual "preboarder scam" threads or "EBCI is a ripoff" threads...
From Southwest's perspective, there is no "problem" here. Some flights have 0 preboarders. Some have 5. The flight to Orlando has 30 and 10 are total fakers. Even on the worst of the Orlando flights, the BS and A-listers are still (a) able to stow their overhead bags and (b) able to select their choice of an aisle or window seat.
The 10 fakers *may* end up hosing Mr B50, because he gets a middle seat when he might have had 24F if it weren't for the fakers. But Mr B50 doesn't realize this, doesn't complain to Southwest about it, and sounds like a total whiner even if he does.
Southwest just has to abide by the law and get the damn flight out ontime. Asking a bunch of questions of the preboarders accomplishes neither. Creating a weird, complicated system of blocked rows, partly-assigned seats, or some other nonsense won't turn planes around faster or make their operation simpler.
In short, there is no problem to solve here. The current system is probably the best one, even assuming that 0.01% of the total passengers flying Southwest today are faking an injury to scam early boarding.
May 31, 2017, 12:00 pm
#64
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In the meantime, proposing things that aren't possible under the current laws and regulations doesn't really add anything to the conversation if for no other reason that WN probably has no interest in spending the time and money to attempt to change the law.
As has been stated numerous times their only play appears to be to go to assigned seating if they decide it's in their best interest.
May 31, 2017, 12:53 pm
#65
Formerly known as billinaz
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I'm not sure why the stock, knee-jerk answer to anyone questioning one's posts on FT is "whahh, just don't read it." We come to FlyerTalk to read and participate in threads; that's why it exists and what a message board is for. We have the right to disagree and comment on your posts if you post them.
It's like the old, "but it's just my opinion." Yeah, we know it's an opinion. We also can agree or disagree with opinions; it's kind of their function.
It's like the old, "but it's just my opinion." Yeah, we know it's an opinion. We also can agree or disagree with opinions; it's kind of their function.
May 31, 2017, 12:57 pm
#66
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This.
From Southwest's perspective, there is no "problem" here. Some flights have 0 preboarders. Some have 5. The flight to Orlando has 30 and 10 are total fakers. Even on the worst of the Orlando flights, the BS and A-listers are still (a) able to stow their overhead bags and (b) able to select their choice of an aisle or window seat.
The 10 fakers *may* end up hosing Mr B50, because he gets a middle seat when he might have had 24F if it weren't for the fakers. But Mr B50 doesn't realize this, doesn't complain to Southwest about it, and sounds like a total whiner even if he does.
Southwest just has to abide by the law and get the damn flight out ontime. Asking a bunch of questions of the preboarders accomplishes neither. Creating a weird, complicated system of blocked rows, partly-assigned seats, or some other nonsense won't turn planes around faster or make their operation simpler.
In short, there is no problem to solve here. The current system is probably the best one, even assuming that 0.01% of the total passengers flying Southwest today are faking an injury to scam early boarding.
From Southwest's perspective, there is no "problem" here. Some flights have 0 preboarders. Some have 5. The flight to Orlando has 30 and 10 are total fakers. Even on the worst of the Orlando flights, the BS and A-listers are still (a) able to stow their overhead bags and (b) able to select their choice of an aisle or window seat.
The 10 fakers *may* end up hosing Mr B50, because he gets a middle seat when he might have had 24F if it weren't for the fakers. But Mr B50 doesn't realize this, doesn't complain to Southwest about it, and sounds like a total whiner even if he does.
Southwest just has to abide by the law and get the damn flight out ontime. Asking a bunch of questions of the preboarders accomplishes neither. Creating a weird, complicated system of blocked rows, partly-assigned seats, or some other nonsense won't turn planes around faster or make their operation simpler.
In short, there is no problem to solve here. The current system is probably the best one, even assuming that 0.01% of the total passengers flying Southwest today are faking an injury to scam early boarding.
Perhaps if there was a hard cost to WN for ordering a wheelchair escort and having it going unneeded that would cause some cause for action.
Last edited by joshua362; May 31, 2017 at 2:15 pm Reason: typo
May 31, 2017, 1:00 pm
#67
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I fail to see how a policy that all pre-boarders must sit behind the exit row (unless you require an aisle chair, which is quite obvious) is somehow invalid. I started a thread on this matter and it generated several pages of replies and I even made the FT "hot threads". ^
In other words, if this same type of logic were to be applied to say, Delta, that means that anyone who says "I need pre-boarding" could sit in C+ (or on AA, MCE, or on UA, E+), at no charge. Fat chance of that happening!!! Why is it that DL, UA and AA can get away with making pre-boarders sit in their assigned seats behind the exit row (where there's no upcharge for more legroom)? WN should be able to do the exact same thing.
On AA, DL, UA, and Allegiant (and others too), seats at the front of coach cost more, unless you are disabled and absolutely MUST sit there, a number which is very, very low. Why can't Southwest Airlines do this?
Several years ago, I accompanied a disabled person to a Delta flight GSP-MCO. Prior to the flight, I called Delta on the phone and got him a bulkhead seat. He has no use of the left side of his entire body. He clearly qualifies for disabled pre-boarding (bulkhead seating, obviously). The TSA was nice enough to let me through their fake security, and I watched him board before everyone else. I didn't watch him take his seat, but I assume it was the one on his boarding pass which was 1-something (some RJ with no first class on it).
Southwest Airlines needs to made a decision -- 1) keep going with the current ........ and piss off your loyal customers, 2) make the fake pre-boaders sit behind the exit row (or bulkhead seating if you actually need it), or 3) go to assigned seating like everyone else.
In other words, if this same type of logic were to be applied to say, Delta, that means that anyone who says "I need pre-boarding" could sit in C+ (or on AA, MCE, or on UA, E+), at no charge. Fat chance of that happening!!! Why is it that DL, UA and AA can get away with making pre-boarders sit in their assigned seats behind the exit row (where there's no upcharge for more legroom)? WN should be able to do the exact same thing.
On AA, DL, UA, and Allegiant (and others too), seats at the front of coach cost more, unless you are disabled and absolutely MUST sit there, a number which is very, very low. Why can't Southwest Airlines do this?
Several years ago, I accompanied a disabled person to a Delta flight GSP-MCO. Prior to the flight, I called Delta on the phone and got him a bulkhead seat. He has no use of the left side of his entire body. He clearly qualifies for disabled pre-boarding (bulkhead seating, obviously). The TSA was nice enough to let me through their fake security, and I watched him board before everyone else. I didn't watch him take his seat, but I assume it was the one on his boarding pass which was 1-something (some RJ with no first class on it).
Southwest Airlines needs to made a decision -- 1) keep going with the current ........ and piss off your loyal customers, 2) make the fake pre-boaders sit behind the exit row (or bulkhead seating if you actually need it), or 3) go to assigned seating like everyone else.
If someone has a difficult time walking long distances or negotiating narrow aisles, why in the world would you try to force them to walk to the BACK of the plane?
The problem with all the cheating is the cheaters who have zero shame. They make it hard those who really have disabilities.
May 31, 2017, 1:03 pm
#68
Formerly known as billinaz
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With all due respect I think it comes across as arguing because your alternatives and suggestions aren't based on fact. By that I mean, if you read the CFR's and come up with something that doesn't violate them or any other law, then certainly that would be an alternative or suggestion.
In the meantime, proposing things that aren't possible under the current laws and regulations doesn't really add anything to the conversation if for no other reason that WN probably has no interest in spending the time and money to attempt to change the law.
As has been stated numerous times their only play appears to be to go to assigned seating if they decide it's in their best interest.
In the meantime, proposing things that aren't possible under the current laws and regulations doesn't really add anything to the conversation if for no other reason that WN probably has no interest in spending the time and money to attempt to change the law.
As has been stated numerous times their only play appears to be to go to assigned seating if they decide it's in their best interest.
In my experience when a statement starts with "With all due respect" then what follows is the opposite.
With that aside, the thread started with an OP who, like many others, are frustrated at what is an abuse of the preboard process. Nobody is saying that someone who does fit the preboard needs such as wheelchair, gait ataxia, etc should not preboard. When it is apparent that the passenger is most likely faking it and using this mandated process for personal gain then that is where the concern is based.
My opinion on resolutions were based in the working of the CFR on assigned and non assigned seating. I suggested that if WN decided to make X number of rows assigned they could both profit and solve an issue. Logistical hurdles may still be a blockade, but that is what this discussion is for.
Until Southwest decides that they have had enough of the abuse of preboarding and instead of making light of the miracle flights, then nothing will change.
Just reading this thread did make me definitely destined to avoid to or from MCO at all costs. That just sounds like a nightmare.
And as an observation..... are the seats on WN tighter than other airlines? I dont recall feeling squeezed in on other airlines seats.
May 31, 2017, 1:10 pm
#69
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Double this. Although it is funny to hear GA & FA's exclam "another miracle flight" or "there must be a miracle cure in Seattle".
Perhaps if there was a hard cost to WN for ordering a wheelchair escort and having it going unneeded that would cause some cause for action.
Perhaps if there was a hard cost to WN for ordering a wheelchair escort and having it going unneeded that would cause some cause for action.
I saw at least one person walk to the wheelchair and sit in it. I thought that was strange because there was plenty of seats available. The person who sat in it asked if we would watch her bag while she went to use the bathroom and get something to eat.
It wasnt until that person returned that I realized that they had just walked much farther away for both of those trips than the distance to the 737 waiting at the gate.
When I saw that person preboard... and on landing pull the roll on bag out of the overhead and walk faster than I was getting to the LAS baggage claim only to pull a large bag off the belt and walk out that I got the realization they were faking it.
May 31, 2017, 1:19 pm
#70
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With that aside, the thread started with an OP who, like many others, are frustrated at what is an abuse of the preboard process. Nobody is saying that someone who does fit the preboard needs such as wheelchair, gait ataxia, etc should not preboard. When it is apparent that the passenger is most likely faking it and using this mandated process for personal gain then that is where the concern is based.
My opinion on resolutions were based in the working of the CFR on assigned and non assigned seating. I suggested that if WN decided to make X number of rows assigned they could both profit and solve an issue. Logistical hurdles may still be a blockade, but that is what this discussion is for.
My opinion on resolutions were based in the working of the CFR on assigned and non assigned seating. I suggested that if WN decided to make X number of rows assigned they could both profit and solve an issue. Logistical hurdles may still be a blockade, but that is what this discussion is for.
If you have read the CFR's then you would have seen that if seats can be assigned in advance then you have to block some of them for passengers with disabilities. The airline cannot discriminate and exclude passengers with disabilities from any seats in the cabin they paid for (except for exit row).
Remember the CFR's are written to protect passengers with disabilities, not to protect able bodied passengers from those with disabilities.
May 31, 2017, 2:22 pm
#71
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May 31, 2017, 2:46 pm
#72
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She again refused my seat in the exit row because since I had first entered with the Pre Boarders I was a Pre Boarder still. I refused to move and she went away then came back with the decision that I could stay in the exit row but that it wasn't right. Although later in the flight she did offer me free champagne.
From Southwest's published exit row requirements:
A passenger seated in an exit seat must not:
- Have preboarded
- Use a portable oxygen concentrator
- Require a seat belt extension to fasten his or her seat belt
- Have a condition or responsibilities, such as caring for small children or pets, that might prevent them from performing the applicable functions
- Have a condition that might cause the person harm if he or she performs one or more of the applicable functions
And he's lucky he wasn't removed from the flight.
Southwest Airlines needs to made a decision -- 1) keep going with the current ........ and piss off your loyal customers, 2) make the fake pre-boaders sit behind the exit row (or bulkhead seating if you actually need it), or 3) go to assigned seating like everyone else.
What "loyal customers" are they likely to "piss off"? For the latest month for which data is available (March, 2017) Southwest is #1 for passenger enplanements, 900K pax ahead of #2 Delta. If they lose a few malcontents that don't like WN's approach, they'll probably gain a few more who appreciate the baggage allowance & lack of change fees.
Last edited by MikeMpls; May 31, 2017 at 3:08 pm
May 31, 2017, 2:55 pm
#73
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Confessions of an able-bodied pre-boarder...
I once pre-boarded a Southwest flight despite being completely able to board regularly with no physical or other limitations. Want to know why?
The gate agent told me to and gave me a pre-board pass.
I had volunteered for VDB, but they weren't sure they needed me so the agent had me pre-board and sit near the front so I could get off quickly if they needed my seat.
I'm sure there are many other not-so-obvious reasons why individuals are legitimately authorized to pre-board; why jump to the conclusion that they're all scammers and fakes?
I once pre-boarded a Southwest flight despite being completely able to board regularly with no physical or other limitations. Want to know why?
The gate agent told me to and gave me a pre-board pass.
I had volunteered for VDB, but they weren't sure they needed me so the agent had me pre-board and sit near the front so I could get off quickly if they needed my seat.
I'm sure there are many other not-so-obvious reasons why individuals are legitimately authorized to pre-board; why jump to the conclusion that they're all scammers and fakes?
May 31, 2017, 5:52 pm
#74
Formerly known as billinaz
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Confessions of an able-bodied pre-boarder...
I once pre-boarded a Southwest flight despite being completely able to board regularly with no physical or other limitations. Want to know why?
The gate agent told me to and gave me a pre-board pass.
I had volunteered for VDB, but they weren't sure they needed me so the agent had me pre-board and sit near the front so I could get off quickly if they needed my seat.
I'm sure there are many other not-so-obvious reasons why individuals are legitimately authorized to pre-board; why jump to the conclusion that they're all scammers and fakes?
I once pre-boarded a Southwest flight despite being completely able to board regularly with no physical or other limitations. Want to know why?
The gate agent told me to and gave me a pre-board pass.
I had volunteered for VDB, but they weren't sure they needed me so the agent had me pre-board and sit near the front so I could get off quickly if they needed my seat.
I'm sure there are many other not-so-obvious reasons why individuals are legitimately authorized to pre-board; why jump to the conclusion that they're all scammers and fakes?
May 31, 2017, 5:59 pm
#75
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On airlines that assign seats, I believe you are correct that not all passengers would be eligible for preboard but it doesn't matter as the seat is assigned.