'Deplane': We need to offload fuel
#16
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,028
I don't know how far in advance they plan these things (there's someone on here who might, though that might also be information he's not allowed to share), but depending on when it is there's a lot that could change between then and when things actually get under way.
As best as I can determine, the aircraft was inadvertantly over-fueled which made it overweight for the short flight. Although STL has some long runways, the flight's weight wasn't limited by takeoff, but limited by landing at the destination. Just about any airline flight less than 2-3 hours in duration is going to be landing weight limited.
When a last-minute overgross situation occurs, the usual solution is dependent on the how overweight the aircraft is. If it's not very much, a last-minute route change might be in order, like, say, STL to MDW via longer route via DSM. If the amount of overage is significant, the solution is to reduce the weight of aircraft, and that's usually accomplished by defueling.
There are certain regulations and procedures that must be followed when defueling operations take place, and whether or not passengers are permitted to be onboard are subject to a couple of variables. I don't know the exact extent of the overage on the flight involved, but the initial confusion was probably due to getting those variables nailed down into a firm decision.
#17
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
There are certain regulations and procedures that must be followed when defueling operations take place, and whether or not passengers are permitted to be onboard are subject to a couple of variables. I don't know the exact extent of the overage on the flight involved, but the initial confusion was probably due to getting those variables nailed down into a firm decision.
Flight Delayed Due to Too Much Fuel
Defueling Delay
Might need to make sure ground equipment isn't near the area of escape slide deployment.
#18
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,525
Won't SWA give your boarding pass back if you ask after scanning it? I thought they only collected them because it was faster during the boarding process and then threw them away when the flight closed.
#19
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,872
Sure, they'll give it back to you if you ask. A1 is the only pass that they ask you to keep and hand to an FA when boarding so that they can identify the first general board pax. I've noticed this is occasionally changing lately due to the proliferation of electronic BPs...instead, several times the GA has kept the BP and asked me to tell the FA that I'm the first general board pax.
#20
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston (HOU/IAH)
Programs: WN, UA, DL, AA, Chase UR, Amex MR
Posts: 2,269
That said, last month when I flew to Mexico City they did detach and return the stub from the BP both in San Antonio-MEX and Mexico City-SAT. Even then it would seem to only be useful in filling out the immigration card to see the date and flight number.
#21
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Paper boarding passes just like WN.
But, the agent either scans it or you scan it yourself and retain it.
The paper BP no longer serves any accountability purpose and the count is kept electronically.
For what it's worth, I doubt that there are many people who would include their wallet in the term "carry on" and, to be frank, even if a wallet is included in the term, I can't imagine leaving it behind for 5 minutes or 5 hours.
But, the agent either scans it or you scan it yourself and retain it.
The paper BP no longer serves any accountability purpose and the count is kept electronically.
For what it's worth, I doubt that there are many people who would include their wallet in the term "carry on" and, to be frank, even if a wallet is included in the term, I can't imagine leaving it behind for 5 minutes or 5 hours.
#22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Peoria
Programs: Southwest, Best Western Gold, La Quinta, Dollar
Posts: 819
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ORD, MDW or MKE
Programs: American and Southwest. Hilton and Marriott hotels primarily.
Posts: 6,461
#24
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Peoria
Programs: Southwest, Best Western Gold, La Quinta, Dollar
Posts: 819
That would be me. I use a big Think Tank camera/roller bag and there's a slot in it that's perfect for my wallet. It goes in there as soon as I'm done with it at security. Probably not the smartest idea ever, but I hate sitting on it for the entire flight.
#25
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago, IL, US
Posts: 2,210
I usually put my wallet into my carryon when going through security, so it's zipped in my bag instead of sitting in one of the little bins or something. While I usually pull it out before boarding, I have forgotten on occasion and it's sat in my bag for the whole flight.
#28
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
On a micro hop like this, all it takes is a reroute for an aircraft expecting to depart and land to the west, now headed direct. If properly fueled for the original routing, would likely make the aircraft heavy on arrival.
It's far from unusual and the Captain's announcement seems to have said all that there is to be had.
Needless to say, the WN practice of collecting paper BP's makes this is a silly process later, but WN sticks to lots of silly practices which don't make much sense.
It's far from unusual and the Captain's announcement seems to have said all that there is to be had.
Needless to say, the WN practice of collecting paper BP's makes this is a silly process later, but WN sticks to lots of silly practices which don't make much sense.
#29
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: none
Posts: 1,668
The three most useless things in aviation are:
Altitude above you
Runway behind you
Air in your fuel tanks
(Except that is possible to have TOO MUCH fuel for a given flight.)
Don't even try to read and understand every requirement, exception, clause, loophole, condition, etc. that apply to the procedures for adding/removing fuel for a commercial flight. The regulations take PAGES to describe.
Accept the fact that of all the possibilities (change the route, remove some cargo/baggage, remove some passengers, cancel the entire flight, etc.) the decision was to offload fuel. The fact that SW handled the outcome poorly is simply a self-inflicted wound. That probably goes into their "lessons learned" file.
Altitude above you
Runway behind you
Air in your fuel tanks
(Except that is possible to have TOO MUCH fuel for a given flight.)
Don't even try to read and understand every requirement, exception, clause, loophole, condition, etc. that apply to the procedures for adding/removing fuel for a commercial flight. The regulations take PAGES to describe.
Accept the fact that of all the possibilities (change the route, remove some cargo/baggage, remove some passengers, cancel the entire flight, etc.) the decision was to offload fuel. The fact that SW handled the outcome poorly is simply a self-inflicted wound. That probably goes into their "lessons learned" file.
#30
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,028
..and before someone asks, 737s can't dump excess fuel while airborne, since the 737 doesn't even have a fuel dump system installed, nor is it required to...