PointAbuser

Right... except, this:

Can't shut down what isn't there to target.

Again - doing this is not illegal. Southwest just doesn't like it.

normalone

Whether it is a website is immaterial. OP is accessing Southwest's website, acting as a third party, for the purpose of online check-in. To me that is exactly what they are prohibiting.

And yes, as OP points out it's not technically illegal. However I don't know that I'd risk my RR points balance over finding out whether Southwest will allow it to go on. (Not to mention giving a stranger access to the information they would need to cancel my reservation).

LegalTender

except this....

So, a community of Southwest flyers accessing a server by invitation to end-run a monetized Southwest system and its profit potential.

The legal distinction between that and a check-in website may be less than you imagine.

PointAbuser

REGARDLESS of how much Southwest might not LIKE it, it's not illegal. The post above the one I quoted says that the "legal distinction" may be less than I imagine.

If you are even remotely asserting that service may be ILLEGAL, then we in the US have now allowed anyone at any time to enact any law they choose.

A website TOS is NOT law. If I break that TOS by using a tool to access the site, the worst they can do is what they have at their disposal. Block access, or maybe screw with RR stuff if they have any clue who runs the service. Since it's not even a website, there isn't even a public face to target. Assuming they can even tell which requests to "block" or determine which check in was from a service and not a website (I've been building website automation tools for years. Good luck figuring it out).

I sound defensive because of the number of "that's quasi illegal!" Responses I seem to be getting. I asked if there was any interest. Not for a lecture. It's not illegal. SW doesn't like it because it might pull revenue from their EBCI. Well, so do cheap Delta flights. They can't sue them over that either.

And as for the post that said it can basically cost SW money, no, not really. EBCI is T-36. No script on the planet can beat an EBCI checkin at T-24. A checkin service is merely a better chance at a better position. Some responders seem to be taking offense at the fact I'd have the nerve to defy WN's website terms of service. Well, I take offense at WN forcing me to wake up at 6am to check in to a flight the day before, and if I don't, ill likely be stuck in a middle seat, or be forced to pay $12.50 to sleep in. That is offensive. So I made a tool so I can sleep in. I know - I'm a huge jackass for offering to help others. How dare I threaten WN's bottom line? I'm all for fanboi'ing a company, but my god, I'm not showing people how to steal from Southwest. I'd argue hidden city is a lot worse. You're tricking the system into paying less, AND also possibly costing them a fare on that last leg you didn't take. Where is the lynch mob screaming at the hidden city flyers?

Truth be told I don't know why southwest cares if people use scripts. Their TOS doesn't even make sense. I can use my own script. You can't use mine. So as long as you use your own, it's ok? What?

LegalTender

Highly recommended.

And "PointAbuser" would make a killer title.

normalone

Don't ask people for their thoughts and then rant when you don't like what they think.

lougord99

+1

rsteinmetz70112

Explain to me how running a script on my computer involves a third party.

I have enough experience and skill to create such a script. I don't have the motivation to maintain such a script, as Southwest could keep changing the website.

InkUnderNails

My son, now a computer engineer, looked into this at my request. He said it could be done but that the WN web site code was such a mess that it likely would not work reliably.

Like we did not know that.

normalone

It doesn't. OP is running a script on his computer. He wants people to send them their flight info via email so he can check them in using his computer. That makes him a third party.

If he was doing this on his own computer, and only checking in for his own flights then it would not be a violation of the TOS.

InkUnderNails

Well, it might. Citation.

rsteinmetz70112

The citation is a jumble of phrases that might does appear to make sense in any normal or legal sense. Just because ToS makes some potential statement does not make it legal. Although it would take litigation to establish that. EULAs and ToS often contains language that is patentry unenforceable put the to intimidate peoplem. As far as I can tell they is rarely any attempt to enforce them. Enforcement actions generally rely on copy it ot other laws.

Beckles

As I recall Southwest has successfully obtained court rulings asserting these rights, basically protecting them from others using their website while circumventing their user interface.

If we're talking about a single person who writes a script for their own personal use, while it is against the ToS you cite, Southwest has little to no incentive to pursue them. The minute you start talking about such a script in public and implying you may offer it for others to use in any fashion the chances of Southwest taking action increase significantly.

If you knowingly violate the ToS of their website and/or provide a tool knowing it violates their ToS there would be the potential for civil liability if Southwest wished to pursue the matter.

rsteinmetz70112

To the best of my recollection, Southwest has only obtained rulings against commercial websites and the legal tide has somewhat tured against the naked one sided terms asserted against consumers. There is a very old tenant of contract construction that any ambiguity is construed against the drafter. Contracts between business entities have generally been considered to be between "sophisticated" actors, but even that has been challenged with regard to EULAs which are a very close relative to ToS.

djp98374

I think there is a fundamental difference if you created an app to do auto check in vs you doing this thru a 3rd party. You sharing this app could cause issues.