LapLap

I was on my feet for two weeks after a recent operation and in the jubilatory rush of excitement and optimism booked a flight to Narita with a layover in Rome. I'm set to go at the end of the month.

My itinerary is now:
Friday
LHR - FCO
12:05 15:30 AZ205

Monday
FCO - MXP
13:05 14:20 AZ1044

then
MXP - NRT
15:15 10:05(Tue) AZ786

And 'straight' return

Sunday
NRT-MXP
13:00 18:30 AZ787

MXP-LHR
20:40 21:40 AZ246

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I won't be alone, so that makes this far less daunting. I am concerned about the tight connection time at MXP for the flight to NRT. But there is an evening departure to NRT with a company AZ code shares with (even though this JL flight is not code shared) so I'm not unduly concerned should someone not turn up to greet me at MXP with a wheelchair.

Also, the chair I use isn't particularly special, so if it doesn't turn up at NRT any replacement will be fine (I haven't any doubts that they'll loan me one in Japan should this happen).

Anyway, I'll make a full report of my experiences (AZ, Rome, Tokyo, Hotels, transport, etc..)



Please let me know if you have any tips or suggestions that you think might help, and also please let me know if there's anything you'd like me to report on, look out for or ask about.

It's unlikely I would have booked this trip had I known my circumstances, but now that I have I'm looking forward to the challenge (and I can't begin to tell you how much I'm looking forward to the change in scenery).

Katja

Best of luck, LapLap! I don't have any specific advice to offer (especially about Japan, which I haven't been to since about 1971) as I know you've been a diligent student of flying with a disability.

I look forward to your trip reports.

baglady

LapLap, have a great trip and I look forward to your run downs of all the hopefully good things you encounter on your trip. Safe travels!

LapLap

First hiccup

I just called Alitalia to ask about their policy regarding wheelchairs (namely, what happens if I arrive in Tokyo and the chair doesn't).

The guy went off to make enquiries - official line is that they consider the wheelchair to be the same as any other piece of baggage. If it doesn't arrive the helpful suggesion I was given was that I should buy another and that this would be a matter to take up with an insurance company. How this task could be achieved... no suggestions, nor even a hint of sympathy, especially as it hadn't happened.

Having had this conversation I'm more worried about the LHR-FCO flight (I can't imagine for a second that the nice folks at NRT would boot me out of a courtesy chair into thin air). If all the Alitalia people are like him, I can well imagine that they would boot me out of a loan chair and onto the floor.

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Enforcement of EU regulations 1107/2006 concerning the rights of disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility when travelling by air
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010009.pdf

Seems to me the following point in particular has been violated

Article 11 (Training)

Especially as they should be able to brief me on
Article 8 - section 1
Annex 1 - (11th point)

Which outlines the Airport's responsibilities (which according to Article 9 point 5 could well be funded by Alitalia)


- I have asked to speak to a Supervisor (who remembers my conversation as she was the one the original guy went to for advice) and they requested I call back in half an hour.

LapLap

Response to that is that I DO NOT check in the chair but take it to the aircraft and collect it at the aircraft door at every point.

At least I'm more aware of EU law now so I can insist that the airport itself helps me should anything go wrong. They in turn can get reimbursed by Alitalia if necessary.

I'll do the same at NRT should I need to.

DeafFlyer

The problem will not be when you take the chair to the gate. The points where things can go wrong is: 1) they forget to load it on board, or 2) upon arrival, they won't allow you to get your chair at the aircraft door, but instead have to use an airport chair until after passing border control. SAS somehow misplaced my chair at CPH during #2 above, and I had to wait over an hour for them to find it. Fortunately, my connecting flight was several hours later. I do not know what they would have done if it could not be found. I do know our gate checked stroller was lost on the same flight and we never saw it again.

JoeW

Was this an electric wheelchair? A manual wheelchair should never be a problem to get at the gate.

LapLap

I agree with you.

Alas - getting someone to address these concerns seems to be impossible. I can't get them to acknowledge the potential problem so can't force them to address it.

I can only record what I've been told (you know as well as I do that it's useless) and take on board that, in the EU at least, the airport is required by law to give assistance.

Why there is so little in the way of legislation to protect passengers where it really, really matters (i.e. not leaving them in a foreign airport stranded without any means of propulsion) defies belief.

It's like fixing up an elaborate plumbing structure and compelling all involved to get qualified insallers to install standard pipes/fittings and not bothering with the drainage or sewage disposal.

phaleesy

Sorry for appearing nosy but I found my way to this thread after Katja's mention in the Japan forum.

I think the connection is very very tight. It's as well that you are not checking-in your wheelchair. Did you follow the thread of tight connections in London on BA?

My flights with AZ the Sunday just past:
FCO - MXP 1800 - 1915
MXP - LHR 2040 - 2140

We were delayed at FCO. Arrived in MXP at 1945! CHeck-in for MXP-LHR was meant to be 2005. At 2010, I was still stuck in the massive queue at the immigration counter for international flights (Gate B). The 'EU passports' queue wasn't going any faster than the 'All other passports' queue.

I literally had to run from gate to gate to make the connection. Fortunately, the second flight was also delayed. The reason given was getting the luggage on board (due to delayed flights like mine?).

I do not think you would have a problem with the immigration queue since you would most likely bypass that. The main concern would be your luggage finding its way to the plane on time. Would be prudent to pack a bag of absolute essentials.

LapLap

When I booked this I was walking around convinced that I wouldn't need a wheelchair - I could have got a less tight connection (there is a FCO-MXP flight earlier in the day), but it cost considerably more. It wasn't worth paying the extra as we could have just got a direct LHR-NRT for the price with another carrier and dropped Rome off of the itinerary entirely. If I knew then what I know now I would have planned differently - but that's hindsight for you.

We will have remarkably little with us for this trip - we have a lot of stuff in Tokyo we need to ship back (including clothes). I'm pretty sure we can take everything (or almost everything) with us as hand luggage.

I'm actively expecting my luggage not to show up in NRT and planning accordingly.

I know there's a JAL flight from MXP to NRT later that day, I know AZ could put us on it (there's no AZ flight to NRT from MXP the next day - they'd have to send us to FCO). I also know that the airports can lend us a chair. I'm just not going to get stressed about any of this. Should things go wrong, I can see plenty of straightforward solutions that I would be completely happy with. If they want to send us on the earlier FCO-MXP flight, we'll do that too.

DeafFlyer

Manual chair, and that is not the way it works for international flights, in some places. For example, on an SAS flight CPH-IAD, I had to wait to get my chair until after passport control. The same thing has happened at some other international airports, but not all of them.

JoeW

Thats not good. I can only speak for myself and "my airport", OSL. We should always get you the wheelchair from the belly, but if its electric, its getting problematic... I hope you understand that there is quit some work getting an electric wheelchair out, eg. because they need a forklift. This takes a lot of time, and if youre fit to sit in one of the airport-wheelchairs to the luggage carousels, thas a lot easier. But a manual wheelchair is not a problem, as everyone working as a wheelchair attendant should be able to carry it, even if they have to take the stairs.

I do not know any rule or regulation within the EU that regulate this, so Im wondering what happend in CPH. I cant speak for the rules regarding the US and why you can't get it before immigration. In Europe, there is no problem getting your own wheelchair before immigration...

DeafFlyer

At CPH it is now as you state, but this event happened several years ago. I don't really know what went on there. IAD, though, is a different story.

LapLap

I came back a couple of weeks ago, but I have to say that this was about the most exhausting trip I've ever been on. And I didn't even have to push myself. I think MrLapLap aged a couple of years and at least probably gained several kilos of pure muscle.

I'd guess that, like us, the majority of wheelchair users can't afford private transport options. Using public transport in another country is perhaps the most challenging experience we may ever face.

First of all, Alitalia were pretty good. Once on the plane they weren't good at all and actively ignored me (whilst MrLapLap was asleep - he was genuinely exhausted - I wanted some water... pressed the call button waited about 5 minutes... call button light was switched off.. repeated process... repeated process 10 times... no-one came and I eventually flagged down someone in the aisle) but before, between and after the flights the service I got was excellent.
Should you have any questions about an AZ flight do not call customer services. I'd suggest you find the number for the lounge dedicated to those with disabilities at Rome airport. In fact, you don't even have to queue to check in there. Get to the lounge (Sala Amica on the far side of the building behind the check in desks) and they'll do everything for you there.

The lounge itself is pretty nice (although lacking in refreshments - even the vending machine didn't work) and the toilet there is really well designed for wheelchair users - it even has a shower nozzle which would work as a bidet if you needed it.

I kept my chair with me until the airplane gate, and boarded by myself - be aware that Alitalia will put you at the back of the plane for short haul flights... which is quite a walk. As most of the seats are three across, make sure they give you one of the seats at the very back with a moveable armrest so you can swivel round should someone next to you want to move into/leave their seat - on the first leg of our journey I was sat into a rear chair that wasn't in one of those rows with the moveable armrest.

Also on the way back (NRT-MXP), we were turfed out of the middle seats (3x3x3 config) I'd reserved and I was placed in an aisle seat in a row of 3 by the window - I expressed my alarm at this and was assured that the window seat would be blocked. This didn't happen and the guy who joined us was very tall and well built. Thankfully, an FA was able to switch him over to a spare seat in the Exit row, but this could easily not have happened.
It just shows how the wrong decision at check in can disrupt a flight. There were lots of empty seats in the very middle rows - if I'm ever in this situation again I'll insist on one of these seats.

There was a delay on the journey back... to be honest, the 20 or so hours of travelling I'd done by the time we reached LHR was all too much for me - I'd had problems getting to the back of the aircraft at MXP, at London I just couldn't do it and a cabin wheelchair was brought in for me so that I could leave the craft this way. At the aircraft door I was transferred into an airport wheelchair and a very nice AZ employee took us to the luggage carousel where we picked up our bags and then to another door to pick up my chair. He was a real sweetheart as he also agreed to take me to the Underground station (I gave him a bag of Japanese candy for his Spanish girlfriend).

At the station we took the elevator down to the platform - the trains stop there for a while and MrLapLap had plenty of time to hoist me and the bags onto the train - as the plane was delayed we ended up on one of the last trains so it got wildly busy once we reached the centre.
We got out at a station called Caledonian Road which has elevators and no steps - a fellow passenger was kind enough to help us get the bags off the train in time. We balanced all the bags across the armrests on my chair (it meant I couldn't see a thing) and got to street level. From there we hailed a taxi for the 5 minute ride home. A real achievement considering we had our full luaggage entitlement and then some (we overstretched our hand luggage allowance... there was so much we had to bring back from Japan - we did go with very little though).

On arrival at NRT we breezed through immigration with a lovely ANA employee. Our flight had been significantly delayed and I thought there was no chance of getting the free wa-shoi bus into town I'd booked for 2pm.
I think we got out of the plane at 1:30pm and had collected our bags and gone through customs by 1:45. The lady (with a trainee in tow) took us to the wa-shoi reception desk - a 5 minute walk from the arrivals area. We registered our details with the guy at the reception - discreetly invited to use the toilet and walked over to the bus - a hug coach decked with velvet and chandeliers - like something from the Adams Family. The guy even took our case so I didn't have to hold it across my lap. We were at Shinjuku station in under 1 and a half hours (the return trip took us just 1 hour and 4 minutes).
I note here that the wa-shoi bus was a limited offer and no longer available - I don't know how a wheelchair user who couldn't walk would have coped - I understand that the Limousine Buses are geared towards those more dependent on their chairs.

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Rome

What a nightmare!!! For wheelchair users dependent on public transport... do not go there.

On the trenitalia website it shows a disabled access sign on many of the trains (I checked first and the wesbite made me think all would be fine). Codswallop!!! I think perhaps you need to call in advance and make arrangements for your chair to be hoisted into the train - but I had no idea how to do this (I still don't) no-one volunteers this information, the train from FCO into town is beyond packed with narrow corridors so even the chair won't fit into them. Seriously, as an experience it is beyond awful.

Once we got into our charming apartment in Ciampino we stayed there and had a delightful couple of days resting, cooking and eating. We went into the city to move to the Sheraton Roma (thankfully it had a bus shuttle service to the airport, so turned out to be a wise move) and found the streets incredibly difficult to navigate with a chair - we didn't have the determination to do any sightseeing. Seriously, London is a breeze in comparison.

But what made me especially angry about the appalling state of affairs for wheelchair users in this part of Italy is that this is where the Vatican is situated. Thousands of people in wheelchairs come here every year from all parts of the globe. When a recently opened airport train shuttle (one that at least 5 times the cost of a similar train journey anywhere else in Italy) can't even be designed so that the elderly, infirm and disabled can use it, nevermind everything else in the area that was out of bounds (Ciampino itself is dissected by a train line so requires you to climb up and down under the station to get to one side from the other... or pay about 20Euros for the short taxi ride).
And I could go on and on and on about what riled me about this city... and you wouldn't believe how many people tried to push in front of me when I was queuing... (mostly ladies of a certain age).

in comparison

Tokyo

What a relief! And perhaps one of the best cities in the world for those wanting to use public transport in a wheelchair.

If anyone is interested I can write a report on why Tokyo is great for wheelchair users (but not perfect by any means). But this is getting rather long.

Anyway - I'm no longer a wheelchair user and have progressed to a rollator it means I'm finally able to get out by self, even if it is just for short periods at a time to begin with.

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Quick AZ summary
LHR-FCO - used own chair to craft - collected it from baggage handlers
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FCO-MXP - used own chair to craft - collected it at door and used it to transfer to next craft
MXP-NRT - used own chair to craft - collected it at door
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NRT-MXP - used own chair to craft - collected it at door and used it to transfer to next craft
MXP-LHR - used own chair to craft - collected it from baggage handlers

oldpenny16

LapLap, so glad you are home and are doing better. The information you post is so valuable, I think it should be retained in a 'sticky'.