Martinis at 8

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../gilinger.html

...and I am kind of a free-market guy, but this is no way to treat employees, and $30k a year is a pittance.

Good looking woman too

So how much is their CEO making? They did fire him after the bankruptcy filing, didn't they? I would hope so!

M8

cewhitman

Who is (a fan of them?)?

DetroitFlyer

Wow, where to start?

First of all, no one should be complaining about Tilton negotiating to keep his pension, as a condition of him coming to UA to steer the ship when UA was on the brink of extinction. That's his right in a free market.

To comment about paying F/As only $30,000 is also pointless, IMHO. Every F/A has the ability to change jobs if he or she wanted. But those who decide not to, are either unable to because they did not earn a degree that would allow them to fall back on, if they decided to leave. This is a classic case of putting your eggs in one basket, and well, that basket broke, as they sometimes do.

Do I feel bad that people aren't getting their pensions? Yes. But for United, it was either that, or go bust and no one gets anything. The choice was obvious in a situation where there are no perfect solutions.

flyinbob

Well, I'm a fan of free markets. 30k is what someone thinks the job is worth. No one is forced to take it, or to continue working there. If at that price they get substandard employees or no employees, the rate will rise. That's how it works. What do you (or the FAs) suggest as an alternative?

kevanyalowitz

Have the big brother-union inflate wages further?

kb1992

I thought that FAs have other perks..

Such as free unlimited travel, domestic and international (with immediate family members as well in some cases)?

rjque

I'm a big fan of free markets as well. In this case, the government should have allowed UA to just go Ch. 7. Yes, the FA's would have lost their pension that way, too, but we would have a much more efficient air transport system in place with UA gone. And the bad FA's, in theory, wouldn't be hired by whatever airline stepped in to fill the void left by UA.

BDLORD

That woman who is the spokes person in Chicago for the UA FA's union makes me cringe.
Unions are only good for the people who run them. They stopped caring about their "brothers and sisters" long ago.

747LWW

I feel very, very sad that many UA folks lost most or perhaps all of their retirement benefits.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction many US firms are headed and although I do not have a solution to recommend, I am concered about the financial future of all the younger folks in the US labor pool.

DetroitFlyer

The financial future of all the younger folks in the US labor pool is actually better off, because they can control their investments and determine for themselves how much to put into their 401Ks. It's the pension model that is totally outdated . What kind of business agrees to take on incrementally MORE financial burden as their workforce ages and retires? That's simply unsustainable. ^ to UA for catching up with most other industries.

Seeksreal

I am also a fan of free markets, but abuse of power is still unacceptable to me. UA flight attendants, on newer contracts at least, are underpaid. And for Mr Tilton to give himself and other management hefty bonuses while asking FAs to take pay and pension cuts is just wrong. No person in this country needs to make over $500,000 a year. Sure, it's nice that people can be rich but compensation structures in american corporations today are way off balance and greed seems to be the driving force here. That is immoral. Most FAs spend 30% of their nights away from home in a dull hotel room somewhere. Anybody who does this for their employer deserves more than 30K/year.

DrBeeper

Amen. Getting the government (and corporations) out of the retirement business would force people to behave more sensibly.

DetroitFlyer

Sorry, I don't buy your argument. What kind of argument is "no person needs to make over $500,000 a year???" People can make as much or as little as his or her luck/ability/drive/ambitions/opportunities allow. I actually think Tilton is making too little at his current $800,000 salary. Airline CEOs make too little, compared to CEOs of companies of comparable size.

You seem to think that UA is forcing FAs to stay in their jobs. They can quit any time they want. As for most FAs spending 30% of their nights away, who is making them do that? If they don't like that lifestyle, they can choose some 9-5 job somewhere and be home every night.

Sorry, I have to take a hard stance at this. It's almost like you don't like capitalism. Capitalism rules.

GadgetFreak

Yea well sort of. The fact is that in the last 20 years the differential between the top and bottom employees at US companies has skyrocketed. It has more to do with management appointing compensation committees and a generalized inertia in large organizations in terms of responsibilities to shareholders. For 99% of CEOs doing a job for 5 million a year there is someone who could do as well or better for $250K. But when the people decide their own pay, it isnt likely to drop. Interestingly, the differential is much less in Japanese companies.

As it was starting to go up some of the CEOs used the example of why should Michael Jordan get paid more than they do when all he does is play basketball. They meant it as a rhetorical question. The answer of course is that MJ is vastly superior to others in the league, and quite unique in his abilities. Most CEOS are neither. There are clearly exceptions. People, Gates come clearly to mind, who have created vast wealth in organizations through more or less their own ability. But CEOs of companies like Ford, GM or UA havent done something like that for generations.

rittenhousesq

Actually, most of the FAs I come in contact with are very nice people. Sure there are a few (maybe even more than a few) nasty/lazy ones out there, as is well documented on this forum, but in general I appreciate the work that they do, and always try to give them a nice smile and a sincere "thank you" whenever possible.