I'm not a fan of Flight Attendants...
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IAH
Posts: 2,674
I'm not a fan of Flight Attendants...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../gilinger.html
...and I am kind of a free-market guy, but this is no way to treat employees, and $30k a year is a pittance.
Good looking woman too
So how much is their CEO making? They did fire him after the bankruptcy filing, didn't they? I would hope so!
M8
...and I am kind of a free-market guy, but this is no way to treat employees, and $30k a year is a pittance.
Good looking woman too
So how much is their CEO making? They did fire him after the bankruptcy filing, didn't they? I would hope so!
M8
#3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: DTW and ORD
Posts: 667
Wow, where to start?
First of all, no one should be complaining about Tilton negotiating to keep his pension, as a condition of him coming to UA to steer the ship when UA was on the brink of extinction. That's his right in a free market.
To comment about paying F/As only $30,000 is also pointless, IMHO. Every F/A has the ability to change jobs if he or she wanted. But those who decide not to, are either unable to because they did not earn a degree that would allow them to fall back on, if they decided to leave. This is a classic case of putting your eggs in one basket, and well, that basket broke, as they sometimes do.
Do I feel bad that people aren't getting their pensions? Yes. But for United, it was either that, or go bust and no one gets anything. The choice was obvious in a situation where there are no perfect solutions.
First of all, no one should be complaining about Tilton negotiating to keep his pension, as a condition of him coming to UA to steer the ship when UA was on the brink of extinction. That's his right in a free market.
To comment about paying F/As only $30,000 is also pointless, IMHO. Every F/A has the ability to change jobs if he or she wanted. But those who decide not to, are either unable to because they did not earn a degree that would allow them to fall back on, if they decided to leave. This is a classic case of putting your eggs in one basket, and well, that basket broke, as they sometimes do.
Do I feel bad that people aren't getting their pensions? Yes. But for United, it was either that, or go bust and no one gets anything. The choice was obvious in a situation where there are no perfect solutions.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SNA
Programs: UA Million Mile Nobody, Marriott Platinum Elite, SPG Gold
Posts: 25,228
Well, I'm a fan of free markets. 30k is what someone thinks the job is worth. No one is forced to take it, or to continue working there. If at that price they get substandard employees or no employees, the rate will rise. That's how it works. What do you (or the FAs) suggest as an alternative?
#5
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SEA, WAS, PEK
Programs: UA 3K UGS 3MM
Posts: 2,176
Originally Posted by flyinbob
Well, I'm a fan of free markets. 30k is what someone thinks the job is worth. No one is forced to take it, or to continue working there. If at that price they get substandard employees or no employees, the rate will rise. That's how it works. What do you (or the FAs) suggest as an alternative?
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
I thought that FAs have other perks..
Such as free unlimited travel, domestic and international (with immediate family members as well in some cases)?
Such as free unlimited travel, domestic and international (with immediate family members as well in some cases)?
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Portland
Posts: 11,575
Originally Posted by flyinbob
Well, I'm a fan of free markets. 30k is what someone thinks the job is worth. No one is forced to take it, or to continue working there. If at that price they get substandard employees or no employees, the rate will rise. That's how it works. What do you (or the FAs) suggest as an alternative?
#8
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1.5 Million Mile flyer, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Gold, Hertz 5* and PC since 1985
Posts: 5,611
Originally Posted by kevanyalowitz
Have the big brother-union inflate wages further?
Unions are only good for the people who run them. They stopped caring about their "brothers and sisters" long ago.
#9
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,554
Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
Do I feel bad that people aren't getting their pensions? Yes.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction many US firms are headed and although I do not have a solution to recommend, I am concered about the financial future of all the younger folks in the US labor pool.
#10
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: DTW and ORD
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by 747LWW
I feel very, very sad that many UA folks lost most or perhaps all of their retirement benefits.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction many US firms are headed and although I do not have a solution to recommend, I am concered about the financial future of all the younger folks in the US labor pool.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction many US firms are headed and although I do not have a solution to recommend, I am concered about the financial future of all the younger folks in the US labor pool.
#11
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BUR
Programs: UA 1MM, DL former Gold, AA, SPG, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 884
I am also a fan of free markets, but abuse of power is still unacceptable to me. UA flight attendants, on newer contracts at least, are underpaid. And for Mr Tilton to give himself and other management hefty bonuses while asking FAs to take pay and pension cuts is just wrong. No person in this country needs to make over $500,000 a year. Sure, it's nice that people can be rich but compensation structures in american corporations today are way off balance and greed seems to be the driving force here. That is immoral. Most FAs spend 30% of their nights away from home in a dull hotel room somewhere. Anybody who does this for their employer deserves more than 30K/year.
#12
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Washington DC
Programs: United Mileage Plus, Hilton Honors
Posts: 935
Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
The financial future of all the younger folks in the US labor pool is actually better off, because they can control their investments and determine for themselves how much to put into their 401Ks. It's the pension model that is totally outdated . What kind of business agrees to take on incrementally MORE financial burden as their workforce ages and retires? That's simply unsustainable. ^ to UA for catching up with most other industries.
#13
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: DTW and ORD
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Seeksreal
I am also a fan of free markets, but abuse of power is still unacceptable to me. UA flight attendants, on newer contracts at least, are underpaid. And for Mr Tilton to give himself and other management hefty bonuses while asking FAs to take pay and pension cuts is just wrong. No person in this country needs to make over $500,000 a year. Sure, it's nice that people can be rich but compensation structures in american corporations today are way off balance and greed seems to be the driving force here. That is immoral. Most FAs spend 30% of their nights away from home in a dull hotel room somewhere. Anybody who does this for their employer deserves more than 30K/year.
You seem to think that UA is forcing FAs to stay in their jobs. They can quit any time they want. As for most FAs spending 30% of their nights away, who is making them do that? If they don't like that lifestyle, they can choose some 9-5 job somewhere and be home every night.
Sorry, I have to take a hard stance at this. It's almost like you don't like capitalism. Capitalism rules.
Last edited by DetroitFlyer; Oct 28, 2006 at 11:04 am
#14
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,166
Originally Posted by flyinbob
Well, I'm a fan of free markets. 30k is what someone thinks the job is worth. No one is forced to take it, or to continue working there. If at that price they get substandard employees or no employees, the rate will rise. That's how it works. What do you (or the FAs) suggest as an alternative?
As it was starting to go up some of the CEOs used the example of why should Michael Jordan get paid more than they do when all he does is play basketball. They meant it as a rhetorical question. The answer of course is that MJ is vastly superior to others in the league, and quite unique in his abilities. Most CEOS are neither. There are clearly exceptions. People, Gates come clearly to mind, who have created vast wealth in organizations through more or less their own ability. But CEOs of companies like Ford, GM or UA havent done something like that for generations.
#15
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PHL, EWR
Programs: UA Gold; DL Silver; Amtrak Select Plus;Hilton Diamond;Hyatt Disc;Hertz PC; Total Wine Grand Reserve!
Posts: 2,408
Originally Posted by cewhitman
Who is (a fan of them?)?