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I'll try to keep this generic.....I may ticket an award for travel almost a year from now, on a current alliance partner. Let's say one of two things happens before I travel: #1) the airline whose ticket stock the award is issued on has been liquidated, or #2) *a pulls its affiliation with the subject airline. The airline to be flown is still in business.

Q: is the ticket still valid for travel?

Q 2, for extra credit: the airline to be flown is also out of business. Is the ticket valid on another *a carrier to the same destination?

Thanks.....

Rudi

there is no legal obligation for any 'other' Alliance member to honour a ticket/ award of an 'ex-member' that went (completly) out of business and will not 'pay'/compensate the actual carrier (compensation is only due after the fligth).

It all depends on the 'goodwill' of the actual carrier then, and I don't think anyone right now can predict it (not even the Frequent Flier programs/carriers involved).

GoneGlobal1

Rudi, Are you sure about 'no legal obligation'?

I'm no expert on international law and sure, all FF programs have a cancellation clause, which can immediately eliminate any AWARDS that may be due to members of the terminated PROGRAM.......

But once an AWARD has been converted into an actual TICKET, doesn't that change the legal obligations of the carrier....

Perhaps a ticketholder would have a very low place on the debtor's list but they would have a right to be there, no?

As far as other obligations of the still flying member-partner carrier is concerned, isn't there any FAA-or international law that protects the already TICKETED passenger...even if the issuer is in liquidation?

I'll have to study the Ansett-Swiss Air board if no one replies to my questions....

Rudi

the actual carrier doesn't even have a legal obligation with paid and confirmed tickets, if tickets are from a bankrupt (airline) ticket stock

GoneGlobal1

Rudi, thanks for the reply...I can see from reading your profile and the number of your very insightful and intellegent posts that you are probably correct.

Perhaps GOODWILL alone will determine the future of all loyalty based FF schemes.

But it didn't save Braniff when they decided to honour Laker tickets in 1981!

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Thanks for replies. It used to be that you could virtually count on another carrier picking up a defunct carrier's FF program, but that may not be the case any more.

Rudi

yesterday (Thursday, dec-19), I did visit my local ZRH LH office (to get my XMAS-Stollen gift) and asked several questions relating to UA chapter 11:

LH answers:
* during UA chapter 11 everything (paid and award-) ticket-honouring by all carriers: 'business' as usual
* UA chapter 7: no legal obligation by any carrier to honour tickets (paid or awards) that are issued by UA = UA stock-tickets (even Star-rtw-tickets legally don't have to be honoured anymore). The policy It is up to the goodwill of the carriers.
* LH recommendations (for costumers based in Switzerland):
a) little worry for the next 2 months: for flights booked until end of feb 2003
b) for flights after feb-28-2003:
bb) even when flying UA, buy tickets from non-UA-ticket stocks (that would exclude UA online bookings): ask for that when booking through an agent, or booke UA through another Starcarrier.
bc) Star-rtw-tickets: Don't fly the first international segment with UA (rtw-tickets are issued from the Airline-ticket-stock that you fly the first international segment with)
bd) pay with a credit card, but be aware, that the 'grace' period (denying of payment because service was not delivered) is only 30 days after purchase (in Switzerland, don't know the rules of other countries) - a defferred credit card payment (I can always ask, when buying airline-tickets with major credit cards in Sitzerland), for 12 monthly payments, can help too to minimize risks.
be) use UA miles for upgrades (only possible on LH/OS/NG) or award tickets on other than UA Star-Alliance carriers (even with out legal obligation, chances that such tickets will be honoured because of goodwill are better), UA Upgrade awards (only possible with LH/OS/NG) have higher goodwill 'chances' that non-revenue award tickets.
be) if the same UA flight is also bookable as a LH code-share with UA or LH being the actual carrier buy it (on LH ticket stock) as a LH code-share. LH will honour such tickets for sure, even after UA going chapter 7, and, as UA and LH will share, for transatlantic tickets, income and costs starting jan-1-2003 such code-share bookings will still also support UA's balance sheet the same.

GoneGlobal1

Thanks Rudi....I'm in France but I'm sure the main points of your post apply here.

Again, looking into your crystal ball...what do you see happening in the next 120 days?

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Thanks for the detailed recommendations, Rudi. Not sure I can ticket non-revenue awards using UA miles on another carrier's ticket stock, and a travel agent will cost, but we'll see.

Rudi

awards using UA miles on another carrier's ticket stock

you can't - but goodwill chances (that award tickets would be honoured by a non-UA StarAlliance airline) are better if the (UA-ticket-stock-) award ticket is for a confirmed StarAlliance partner flight (not UA). But still no legal obligation.

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Granted the airlines are not of similar size, did *a carriers honor Ansett tickets when that airline went under?

GoneGlobal1

From what I gather...on issued tickets for non-Ansett flights(international only)YES... but for reservations only...NO

If one had a ticket in hand for an AN flight, they are probably still waiting in the back of the creditor's line. I may be wrong and fortunatly had nothing booked or any issued tickets in hand personally.

Just curious...anyone know, now that the dust has settled, if status comps and/or miles swaps were done by other *A with former AN top tier members?