CraigWatson

Currently sat on-stand at KEF on BA801 after a failed deice, taxiied to the runway only to do a U-turn straight back for a second try and to allow snow clearance on the runway.

Scheduled departure was 18:50 which makes us around 90 minutes late (and still no sign of de-icer trucks and snow still falling albeit slower).

I think EU261 only kicks in if we land > 3 hours later than scheduled, which would be 01:00 - with a 3-hour flight time we'd need to be in the air after 22:00, which seems implausible, hopefully I won't eat my words!

In the meantime, what compensation (if any) should we expect if the delay continues, and worse-case what's BA's responsibility should they decide to cancel the flight? I would hope it would be hotel + food vouchers, but given current trends under Mr Cruz it's safer to check and "know my rights" so-to-speak!

corporate-wage-slave

Weather related delays, and delays caused by airport / ATC handling, are unlikely to get you compensation, and yes you need to be 3 hours late with "doors open" in LHR to be in this context anyway. So that's not looking good for you. However right of care does kick in.

In the current situation, personally I would have this hyperlink / phone number ready:

http://hotelairport.is/
+354 595 1900

This is that medium sized modern hotel just over the car park from Keflavík airport. I'd call them as soon as I heard any "bad news" announcement.

After a two hour delay you are entitlement to food and drink from the airline. My best understanding of this is that if in ET you could get a few items from the OnBoard menu and claim them from BA after the event. If you paid with Avios it should be easy to process, however don't take that as definite, this is still a bit unchartered waters in the BOB context.

The other thing to be aware of, in terms of arrival into LHR, is that BA tries to cap taxi fares to £50, so you may want to get the Piccadilly line to a suitable point before completing your journey by taxi, should that be the case.

UKtravelbear

You would be entitled to duty of care - so hotel and meals as you list.

This is a legal requirement under EU261.


The delay compensation depends on how late you are comparing scheduled and actual arrival (doors open and pax able to leave the plane) times.

But weather delays are excluded from EU261.

CraigWatson

Awesome info, thanks cws!

Interesting info on the weather not classifying - my (perhaps not complete) understanding was that the weather had to be "extraordinary" for BA to deny an EU261 claim. Heavy snow in Iceland surely wouldn't be classed as "extraordinary"?

UKtravelbear

The regulation makes no distinction between types of weather and it's extraordinaryness.

It is a blanket exemption from the compensation element of the regulation.

navylad

Useful advice as ever.

It is worth noting the last Piccadilly lines for delays mid-week somewhere in your phone for such delays, the are from T5

Mon-Thurs 2342 (restarts 0523)
Fri 24 hour tube until Sun 2329

Ldnn1

That is not correct. There is not a 'blanket exemption' due to weather and in any event the airlines still have to have taken 'all reasonable measures' to avoid the delay or cancellation.

In practice the airlines have been mostly successful in defending weather claims but there have been and continue to be many borderline cases.

Often1

The bottom line here is that it sounds as though your aircraft's issue is not a lack of deicing, but that the conditions are such that deicing is not sufficiently effective to permit the aircraft to depart with its wings in proper form. An unsafe condition which no Captain would permit.

Bluntly, there are few more dangerous pieces of stupidity than departing without effective deicing and when deicing is not effective there is little to be done.

Unfortunately, the design of the airport limits where deicing equiptment may safely be located while operations continue, so everything is a balance.

Not all weather may be extraordinary, but this almost certainly is.

Beyond that, EC 261/2004 provides for duty of care in all situations. Thus, if you overnight, a hotel or reimbursement for one, is always in store. Note that a carrier's obligation to provide sustenance during 2+ hour ground delays is not in EC 261/2004. Water is one thing. A meal another.

Takiteasy

It is: Article 9.1(a) contains and obligation to provide meals and refreshments commensurate with the delay.

BA6501

Unless the problem is that there is an issue with the aircraft's own de-ice system, in which case it would be classed as a technical fault.

CraigWatson

It should be noted that I was under no circumstances saying that the pilot should have risked safety - to be fair all of the crew were very polite and apologetic in the face of what was effectively a flash snowstorm.

It seems the initial deice was a cursory wings-only job that was only deemed unsuitable when the snow really started to fall hard, and at that point the only option was to return to stand and strip the original fluid and reapply - the second "coat" was an all-over dousing, including the fuselage.

Totally and utterly 100% behind the captain on that one ^

My initial post was just info-gathering on what our options would be, so that I could be one step of the herd if the worst did happen.

Eventually we left KEF at about 21:00 and got to gate at T5 at 00:30 - we have a room booked at the T5 Travelodge so the delay wasn't the end of the world, thanks all for the advice

UKtravelbear

It actually says

It also includes the time of day. If a flight is due to say depart at 2pm but is delayed to say 4.30 then only refreshment (so water or a cup of tea / coffee) would be reasonable provision because most reasonable people would have had lunch before the flight departed.

And that's if the provision of such care doesn't further delay the flight.

MSPeconomist

I've never heard of de-icing only the wings of an aircraft. Every time I've been on a plane while it's being de-iced, it seemed like the entire fuselage was treated too.

KARFA

Wings and tail only sometimes. Some information from Waterhorse here

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27549999-post5.html

and here

http://jalopnik.com/how-and-why-we-d...off-1657914108

Jollysailor

Out of interest we flew LHR-BOS a couple of weeks ago. Our flight (11:20) was cancelled as was the next one due to the weather so we were booked on the 16:40. Flight and crew were excellent and they said customer services would be contacting everyone (which as of yet they haven't). We have submitted a claim for compensation but I now wonder if we will get anything ? We were in F if that makes any difference.