AC XM NRT-YVR in J with pix link
Oct 15, 2007, 9:13 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York
Posts: 7,347
AC XM NRT-YVR in J with pix link
Air Canada XM NRT to YVR Oct 10, 2007
Hi all,
So now it is Air Canada’s turn… so how does it score? My encounter with Air Canada began with the late 90s when there was still CP Air and later Canadian Airline International, and AC back then really strived to provide a high quality service because it has a major competitor, CP. ExecutiveFirst is actually a very nice product with a really good meal spread – appetizers, soup, salad, entrees, cheese and fruit, and dessert, and F/As were highly motivated and better than most American carriers. So what has it become now? Yes, I got to fly the new XM and Executive First suites, but will AC scores better? Or maintain its “national disgrace” label given by various forums?
Photo link:
ANA Business Class lounge:
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...8QbNHDNy5bqJFo
AC 4:
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...8QbNHDNy5bqJHg
AC 556:
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...8QbNHDNy5bqJJY
October 10, 2007
AC 4 NRT-YVR Lv1900 Arr1200 Boeing 767-300ER C-FMWY Star Alliance livery/ “635”
Transit check-in:
Well despite getting all my boarding passes, I decided to stop by the Air Canada transit desk, which was easy to find, and right after I exited the connecting security checkpoint, and there was a separate priority check-in line, which was good. The agent was busy preparing for the arrival flights from YYZ and YVR, but there was no line, and one other passenger from my HK flight was also going on this AC flight to YVR. I always used the transit desk because I want to make sure AC traces the bags and also I am heading to the US, which requires the bags sorting into a different baggage claim at YVR. I also got a formal written invitation to the Club ANA lounge.
Lounge:
New Club ANA Lounge was a vast improvement, and my only complaint is that the lounge on Satellite Four was located downstairs/basement with no window to look out. Anyway, the new lounge features a nice noodle bar offering a choice of udon or soba noodles in soup, and there are also bread rolls, croissants, sandwiches, salad sushi rolls, various snacks items, as well as a full alcohol and non-alcoholic bar. The sake bar is nice and as you can tell from the pictures, there are really lots of liquors being offered here. The lounge is not particularly crowded and there are lots of sitting room for folks to spread out, as well as a business center with cubicles – some with and some without computers. There is free wifi.
Boarding:
Gate today was gate 44, right above the lounge, and I arrived at an amazing scene – a line of local high school students (a total of 156 of them according to the pilot) was already formed, and they occupied almost the whole main cabin. The most amazing part is the discipline displayed by these Japanese students. Of course the mode was cheerful and you could see all their cell phones decorated with stickers and all the usual chattering, but nobody was too loud and they were all wearing uniforms. I can’t imagine what a flight will be like with 156 American or even Hong Kong high school students. The discipline here is simply beyond amazement.
One of the agents saw me approaching and asked which cabin class I was in, and I told her executive class, and she immediately invited me to sit on the side, and explained to me, they were going to pre-board the high school students first. I just smiled and nodded my head, and boarding began at 6:20pm, and after two-third of students boarded, the priority line was opened for Star Gold and J passengers. It was a surprise when I saw the new Executive class cabin, and I immediately snapped many pictures prior to the majority of passengers arrived.
The purser, Matthew, was a very cheerful person, and welcomed each passenger, and immediately addressed me by my last name, and he later took meal orders according to elite status and Star gold came after AC’s own elites. He was quite a nice fellow. Orange juice or champagne went around the cabin, and a bottle of Dasani water, as well as the green amenity kit is already placed at each seat. On the right hand side of the seat, there was a water bottled holder and a space for the amenity kit. A “sleeping bag” was placed on top of the stool in front of the seat, which contains a mattress and blanket. There was the usual newspaper round, as well as menus. Canadian papers, such as Vancouver Sun and Globe and Mail, were available.
Flight information:
Not much I can say about it because the map function is not yet available on the entertainment system. Flying time was an eight hours and eleven minutes, and we mostly stayed at 33,000feet, until we got closer to the Canadian coast and less heavier. Despite a pretty heavy load (well the students took up most than half) and J was always all full with two or three empty seats, boarding was completed at 6:40pm with the door closed. We pushed back almost eleven minutes early. Despite the early push back, there were lots of evening traffic at this time, and we did not take off from R/W16R till 7:19pm.
Descent soon began at 11:02am Vancouver time and we landed on R/W8L at 11:30am and parked at gate D78 six minutes later.
XM Executive First Class Suites:
So how does it Air Canada’s new Executive Class Suite rate, compared to the original herringbone business class innvator, Virgin Upper Class, and the other herringbone seat that I have flown last week, Cathay Pacific? Well my ranking is Virgin’s Upper Class is still the best seat, and Air Canada and CX ties, and it is sad that the second generation of herringbone business class operators can’t seem to learn much from the first generation seat and the width is a major problem with AC seat, even narrower than CX in full flat position. If I have to rank between AC and CX, I give AC a slight lead (may 0.01) because AC seats are more ergonomically designed compared to CX’s random design (basically copying Virgin seats without doing much homework), and the message function is nice and I really like how the headrest can be adjusted. It is just a more comfortable chair to sit on, and despite the same design, you can tell the differences. But the width problem is even more problematic with AC because the armrest cannot be lifted, only tilted to one side (see the picture because I can’t describe… sorry!) and that armrest design does not open up any more width. AC really needs to redesign the armrest ASAP!
Pro:
1. Lower and thinner partitions, which make the cabin less crowded like CX, and the cabin is just brighter and airier. (CX really needs to address this issue.)
2. Really good ergonomic design with the electronically adjustable headrests and good message function
3. A nicer blue color scheme for the seat cover and fabrics
4. The layout at the 767 is actually very comfortable and the 1-1-1 three abreast seating is really nice and I assume that it is better than 777 in some ways. I recommend the A window seats over the other side, but the F/As served the other aisle first before coming over to the A side.
5. I like the mattress and blanket, but can airlines make longer blankets? I am not a particular tall guy and am surprised even airlines catered to taller Western crowd has this blanket that barely cover the whole body.
Con:
1. The width is really narrow, and the armrest issue needs to be addressed. I am about 190lbs and 5’10½ ” tall and the seat felt narrower and folks who are larger than me will feel really cramped. The cramp factor just can’t go away.
2. The personal TV is not obnoxiously big but looks very flimsy. I wonder why these airlines can’t select a better product or do some quality control. Sure, some of these parts may come cheaper, but if you have to replace it or fix it so often, the cost will end up being the same, not to mention how inconvenient to passengers.
3. Another annoying part of the seat is the stool. Do you notice the curve and sort of like a partition rounded off the seat? I assume those are to prevent legs spreading to the aisle and blocking movements, but the little partitions are really uncomfortable, my feet feel really cramped in the lie flat position.
This herringbone business class seats seem to be the way some of these airlines are going, but it does not seem to work so well except Virgin’s Upper Class. I don’t know what the reasons are, but maybe because the airlines want to cramp more seats than the design allows, which cost all the crowded conditions. For two class airlines, these herringbone seats need to go further, and for three-class airline, there is always this limitation because you want to make sure the new business class seats will not steal away your first class passengers. However, Air Canada is a two class airline, and this herringbone seat does not seem to be its best effort. Nonetheless, compared to those awful sliding flat seats on the Airbus A340-500s, these herringbone seats are major improvement. Given the current conditions of Air Canada or the management direction, I think this may be the best that it can come up with.
The main question remains – do these herringbone seats fare better than the angled lie flat seats? I really don’t have an answer. The herringbone seats can work but take up more spaces than most airlines are wiling to give, and the angled lie flat seats can work if the sliding factor can be eliminated and once again, airlines wiling to sacrifice for space for the seats to go flat and higher. The fundamental issue seems to be lie on the fact that these flat beds are still “business” class and most airlines, especially three-class, want to make sure that they are still different from their first class beds. For two-class airlines, there are more motivations to go all out, but still they can’t charge a first class fare. I will fly SQ’s 77W Business Class next month and hopefully I will see how SQ’s design fares.
Food and Beverages:
One word – awful and the cutbacks have gone too far, and it is really dramatically different from AC a decade ago, and AC definitely goes lower now.
First, on my last YYZ-HKG flight, the first cocktail service came with a nice canapé served creatively in a spoon, and now the beverage accompaniments reduce to a pack of Otsumami – packaged peanuts and rice crackers. I have the Kaiseki meal, which actually remains the same as before, which is a blessing. But then when it comes to dessert, you can see the largest change, and it used to be two rounds – first cheese and fruit brochette, and then choice of two desserts. Now there is no longer cheese service, and only a choice from still two dessert choices and fresh fruit – no longer cheese, fruit and dessert. The praline service after dinner is also cut. Mid-flight snacks are simply fresh fruit baskets set up in the galley area, and the breakfast was served two hours prior, but I don’t understand why AC needs to serve a simple one tray breakfast two hours prior to landing. This meal takes thirty minutes to serve, and why can’t it wait thirty minutes more?
Here is the wine list and menu transcript:
Wine List:
Champagne
Champagne Drappier Carte-D’Or Brut, France
White Wines:
La Fornarina Pinot Grigio, Veneto, Italy
Cev Colio Estate Vqa Chardonnay, Lake Erie North Shore, Ontario, Canada
Red Wines:
Chateau Moulin de Mallet, Bordeaux, France
Fabre-Montmayou “Prestige” Malbec, Mendoza, Argentina
Featured Wine – Hidden Treasures:
Hess Collection, Mountain Cuvee 2003, Mount Veeder, Napa Valley
Port
Dow’s Port, Portugal
Dinner
Appetizers:
Sliced Miso-Marinated Salmon and Bean Sprouts, Shrimp and Leek with Pepper Paste in Rice Wrapper
Or
Vegetarian Appetizer
Main Courses:
Sauteed Fillet Steak with Cherry and Red Wine Sauce,
Chateau Carrots, Pumpkin, Zucchini and mashed Potatoes
Or
Teriyaki grilled breast of chicken
With Bok Choy, Carrots, Ginger, Leek, Shiitake Mushrooms and Steamed Rice
Or
Japanese Meal
A limited quantity of Kaiseki Style authentic Japanese meals is carried on board.
Zensai – Layered Shrimp, roasted Duck, baked Japanese leek, Seafood Mousse, layered dried Saury Fish, Egg Yolk with Black Sesame, Lily Bulbs and Red Pimiento
Kobachi – Sesame-flavored bean curd, snow crab, broad beans, Iwatake mushrooms, Vinegar sauce with Kuzu plant
Takiawase – Simmered Young Bamboo Shoot with Green seaweed, fish roe and tangy Japanese herbs
Men – Cherry and Egg White Wheat noodles
Gindara Saikyo-yaki, Eringi-dake – Grilled Pacific Cod with sweet Miso paste and Eringi Mushrooms
Pickled Vegetables, Miso Soup and Steamed Rice
Dessert
Passion Chocolate Mousse Cake or Ice Cream or Fresh Fruit
Sneak A Snack
Please help yourself to our fresh fruit basket.
Breakfast
Juice Selection
Fresh Seasonal Fruit
Main Courses
Omelette with grilled sausages, hash-brown potatoes and tomato sauce with sautéed mushrooms
Or
Pancakes with peach and pear slices
Or
Japanese Breakfast Okayu – Rice Gruel, Saury Fish, Bean Curd Salad, simmered egg and Salmon Roe
Warm Breakfast Pastries
Assorted Yogurts and Cereals
267C007-1
Flight Attendants:
Apart from the chief purser, Matthew, the business class crew, which consists of one Japanese and one Canadian F/A, and one worked in the galley, and with only two F/As serving, things are not attentive enough. The F/As seem hurried at points and they are not awful and I still rate it above most North American airlines, but the extra touches are gone, and this particular team, even the Japanese F/A is not that good. Sparks are definitely lost here.
Entertainment:
Studio AC was available, but only the movies and televisions work, and the News channels, sky map, and games functions are still not working. However, Studio AC is actually pretty good and well rounded in terms of selections of television shows and movies. It is no Kris World or Studio CX, but better than most North American airlines, which scores better than AA, CO, and UA. The only airline that has better programs is Delta. The new noise-canceling headsets also work fine.
In conclusion, the service standard on Air Canada has undoubted gone downhill, but was it a national disgrace? I don’t think it is that bad, but the F/As definitely lost some of the earlier spark when there were some kinds of competitions, and the F/As were all stressed due to possible reduction of rest time in between trips and less F/As working the cabin. The new XM entertainment system is a nice plus, but the new seats, despite an improvement, falls short of really exciting the passengers, and the herringbone business class seats still need to be studied more and airlines who plan to use them need to address the issues I brought up, and see how you can match up with the original innovator, Virgin Upper Class. Don’t use them till you know what you are doing! My biggest disappointment is the catering department, with severe cutbacks on various catering items that are disappointing at best. I will definitely fly AC again, but hopefully the food service will be slightly improved in the future, and the width issue of the new seats can be addressed with an easy redesign of the armrests.
Thanks for reading!
Carfield
Hi all,
So now it is Air Canada’s turn… so how does it score? My encounter with Air Canada began with the late 90s when there was still CP Air and later Canadian Airline International, and AC back then really strived to provide a high quality service because it has a major competitor, CP. ExecutiveFirst is actually a very nice product with a really good meal spread – appetizers, soup, salad, entrees, cheese and fruit, and dessert, and F/As were highly motivated and better than most American carriers. So what has it become now? Yes, I got to fly the new XM and Executive First suites, but will AC scores better? Or maintain its “national disgrace” label given by various forums?
Photo link:
ANA Business Class lounge:
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...8QbNHDNy5bqJFo
AC 4:
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...8QbNHDNy5bqJHg
AC 556:
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...8QbNHDNy5bqJJY
October 10, 2007
AC 4 NRT-YVR Lv1900 Arr1200 Boeing 767-300ER C-FMWY Star Alliance livery/ “635”
Transit check-in:
Well despite getting all my boarding passes, I decided to stop by the Air Canada transit desk, which was easy to find, and right after I exited the connecting security checkpoint, and there was a separate priority check-in line, which was good. The agent was busy preparing for the arrival flights from YYZ and YVR, but there was no line, and one other passenger from my HK flight was also going on this AC flight to YVR. I always used the transit desk because I want to make sure AC traces the bags and also I am heading to the US, which requires the bags sorting into a different baggage claim at YVR. I also got a formal written invitation to the Club ANA lounge.
Lounge:
New Club ANA Lounge was a vast improvement, and my only complaint is that the lounge on Satellite Four was located downstairs/basement with no window to look out. Anyway, the new lounge features a nice noodle bar offering a choice of udon or soba noodles in soup, and there are also bread rolls, croissants, sandwiches, salad sushi rolls, various snacks items, as well as a full alcohol and non-alcoholic bar. The sake bar is nice and as you can tell from the pictures, there are really lots of liquors being offered here. The lounge is not particularly crowded and there are lots of sitting room for folks to spread out, as well as a business center with cubicles – some with and some without computers. There is free wifi.
Boarding:
Gate today was gate 44, right above the lounge, and I arrived at an amazing scene – a line of local high school students (a total of 156 of them according to the pilot) was already formed, and they occupied almost the whole main cabin. The most amazing part is the discipline displayed by these Japanese students. Of course the mode was cheerful and you could see all their cell phones decorated with stickers and all the usual chattering, but nobody was too loud and they were all wearing uniforms. I can’t imagine what a flight will be like with 156 American or even Hong Kong high school students. The discipline here is simply beyond amazement.
One of the agents saw me approaching and asked which cabin class I was in, and I told her executive class, and she immediately invited me to sit on the side, and explained to me, they were going to pre-board the high school students first. I just smiled and nodded my head, and boarding began at 6:20pm, and after two-third of students boarded, the priority line was opened for Star Gold and J passengers. It was a surprise when I saw the new Executive class cabin, and I immediately snapped many pictures prior to the majority of passengers arrived.
The purser, Matthew, was a very cheerful person, and welcomed each passenger, and immediately addressed me by my last name, and he later took meal orders according to elite status and Star gold came after AC’s own elites. He was quite a nice fellow. Orange juice or champagne went around the cabin, and a bottle of Dasani water, as well as the green amenity kit is already placed at each seat. On the right hand side of the seat, there was a water bottled holder and a space for the amenity kit. A “sleeping bag” was placed on top of the stool in front of the seat, which contains a mattress and blanket. There was the usual newspaper round, as well as menus. Canadian papers, such as Vancouver Sun and Globe and Mail, were available.
Flight information:
Not much I can say about it because the map function is not yet available on the entertainment system. Flying time was an eight hours and eleven minutes, and we mostly stayed at 33,000feet, until we got closer to the Canadian coast and less heavier. Despite a pretty heavy load (well the students took up most than half) and J was always all full with two or three empty seats, boarding was completed at 6:40pm with the door closed. We pushed back almost eleven minutes early. Despite the early push back, there were lots of evening traffic at this time, and we did not take off from R/W16R till 7:19pm.
Descent soon began at 11:02am Vancouver time and we landed on R/W8L at 11:30am and parked at gate D78 six minutes later.
XM Executive First Class Suites:
So how does it Air Canada’s new Executive Class Suite rate, compared to the original herringbone business class innvator, Virgin Upper Class, and the other herringbone seat that I have flown last week, Cathay Pacific? Well my ranking is Virgin’s Upper Class is still the best seat, and Air Canada and CX ties, and it is sad that the second generation of herringbone business class operators can’t seem to learn much from the first generation seat and the width is a major problem with AC seat, even narrower than CX in full flat position. If I have to rank between AC and CX, I give AC a slight lead (may 0.01) because AC seats are more ergonomically designed compared to CX’s random design (basically copying Virgin seats without doing much homework), and the message function is nice and I really like how the headrest can be adjusted. It is just a more comfortable chair to sit on, and despite the same design, you can tell the differences. But the width problem is even more problematic with AC because the armrest cannot be lifted, only tilted to one side (see the picture because I can’t describe… sorry!) and that armrest design does not open up any more width. AC really needs to redesign the armrest ASAP!
Pro:
1. Lower and thinner partitions, which make the cabin less crowded like CX, and the cabin is just brighter and airier. (CX really needs to address this issue.)
2. Really good ergonomic design with the electronically adjustable headrests and good message function
3. A nicer blue color scheme for the seat cover and fabrics
4. The layout at the 767 is actually very comfortable and the 1-1-1 three abreast seating is really nice and I assume that it is better than 777 in some ways. I recommend the A window seats over the other side, but the F/As served the other aisle first before coming over to the A side.
5. I like the mattress and blanket, but can airlines make longer blankets? I am not a particular tall guy and am surprised even airlines catered to taller Western crowd has this blanket that barely cover the whole body.
Con:
1. The width is really narrow, and the armrest issue needs to be addressed. I am about 190lbs and 5’10½ ” tall and the seat felt narrower and folks who are larger than me will feel really cramped. The cramp factor just can’t go away.
2. The personal TV is not obnoxiously big but looks very flimsy. I wonder why these airlines can’t select a better product or do some quality control. Sure, some of these parts may come cheaper, but if you have to replace it or fix it so often, the cost will end up being the same, not to mention how inconvenient to passengers.
3. Another annoying part of the seat is the stool. Do you notice the curve and sort of like a partition rounded off the seat? I assume those are to prevent legs spreading to the aisle and blocking movements, but the little partitions are really uncomfortable, my feet feel really cramped in the lie flat position.
This herringbone business class seats seem to be the way some of these airlines are going, but it does not seem to work so well except Virgin’s Upper Class. I don’t know what the reasons are, but maybe because the airlines want to cramp more seats than the design allows, which cost all the crowded conditions. For two class airlines, these herringbone seats need to go further, and for three-class airline, there is always this limitation because you want to make sure the new business class seats will not steal away your first class passengers. However, Air Canada is a two class airline, and this herringbone seat does not seem to be its best effort. Nonetheless, compared to those awful sliding flat seats on the Airbus A340-500s, these herringbone seats are major improvement. Given the current conditions of Air Canada or the management direction, I think this may be the best that it can come up with.
The main question remains – do these herringbone seats fare better than the angled lie flat seats? I really don’t have an answer. The herringbone seats can work but take up more spaces than most airlines are wiling to give, and the angled lie flat seats can work if the sliding factor can be eliminated and once again, airlines wiling to sacrifice for space for the seats to go flat and higher. The fundamental issue seems to be lie on the fact that these flat beds are still “business” class and most airlines, especially three-class, want to make sure that they are still different from their first class beds. For two-class airlines, there are more motivations to go all out, but still they can’t charge a first class fare. I will fly SQ’s 77W Business Class next month and hopefully I will see how SQ’s design fares.
Food and Beverages:
One word – awful and the cutbacks have gone too far, and it is really dramatically different from AC a decade ago, and AC definitely goes lower now.
First, on my last YYZ-HKG flight, the first cocktail service came with a nice canapé served creatively in a spoon, and now the beverage accompaniments reduce to a pack of Otsumami – packaged peanuts and rice crackers. I have the Kaiseki meal, which actually remains the same as before, which is a blessing. But then when it comes to dessert, you can see the largest change, and it used to be two rounds – first cheese and fruit brochette, and then choice of two desserts. Now there is no longer cheese service, and only a choice from still two dessert choices and fresh fruit – no longer cheese, fruit and dessert. The praline service after dinner is also cut. Mid-flight snacks are simply fresh fruit baskets set up in the galley area, and the breakfast was served two hours prior, but I don’t understand why AC needs to serve a simple one tray breakfast two hours prior to landing. This meal takes thirty minutes to serve, and why can’t it wait thirty minutes more?
Here is the wine list and menu transcript:
Wine List:
Champagne
Champagne Drappier Carte-D’Or Brut, France
White Wines:
La Fornarina Pinot Grigio, Veneto, Italy
Cev Colio Estate Vqa Chardonnay, Lake Erie North Shore, Ontario, Canada
Red Wines:
Chateau Moulin de Mallet, Bordeaux, France
Fabre-Montmayou “Prestige” Malbec, Mendoza, Argentina
Featured Wine – Hidden Treasures:
Hess Collection, Mountain Cuvee 2003, Mount Veeder, Napa Valley
Port
Dow’s Port, Portugal
Dinner
Appetizers:
Sliced Miso-Marinated Salmon and Bean Sprouts, Shrimp and Leek with Pepper Paste in Rice Wrapper
Or
Vegetarian Appetizer
Main Courses:
Sauteed Fillet Steak with Cherry and Red Wine Sauce,
Chateau Carrots, Pumpkin, Zucchini and mashed Potatoes
Or
Teriyaki grilled breast of chicken
With Bok Choy, Carrots, Ginger, Leek, Shiitake Mushrooms and Steamed Rice
Or
Japanese Meal
A limited quantity of Kaiseki Style authentic Japanese meals is carried on board.
Zensai – Layered Shrimp, roasted Duck, baked Japanese leek, Seafood Mousse, layered dried Saury Fish, Egg Yolk with Black Sesame, Lily Bulbs and Red Pimiento
Kobachi – Sesame-flavored bean curd, snow crab, broad beans, Iwatake mushrooms, Vinegar sauce with Kuzu plant
Takiawase – Simmered Young Bamboo Shoot with Green seaweed, fish roe and tangy Japanese herbs
Men – Cherry and Egg White Wheat noodles
Gindara Saikyo-yaki, Eringi-dake – Grilled Pacific Cod with sweet Miso paste and Eringi Mushrooms
Pickled Vegetables, Miso Soup and Steamed Rice
Dessert
Passion Chocolate Mousse Cake or Ice Cream or Fresh Fruit
Sneak A Snack
Please help yourself to our fresh fruit basket.
Breakfast
Juice Selection
Fresh Seasonal Fruit
Main Courses
Omelette with grilled sausages, hash-brown potatoes and tomato sauce with sautéed mushrooms
Or
Pancakes with peach and pear slices
Or
Japanese Breakfast Okayu – Rice Gruel, Saury Fish, Bean Curd Salad, simmered egg and Salmon Roe
Warm Breakfast Pastries
Assorted Yogurts and Cereals
267C007-1
Flight Attendants:
Apart from the chief purser, Matthew, the business class crew, which consists of one Japanese and one Canadian F/A, and one worked in the galley, and with only two F/As serving, things are not attentive enough. The F/As seem hurried at points and they are not awful and I still rate it above most North American airlines, but the extra touches are gone, and this particular team, even the Japanese F/A is not that good. Sparks are definitely lost here.
Entertainment:
Studio AC was available, but only the movies and televisions work, and the News channels, sky map, and games functions are still not working. However, Studio AC is actually pretty good and well rounded in terms of selections of television shows and movies. It is no Kris World or Studio CX, but better than most North American airlines, which scores better than AA, CO, and UA. The only airline that has better programs is Delta. The new noise-canceling headsets also work fine.
In conclusion, the service standard on Air Canada has undoubted gone downhill, but was it a national disgrace? I don’t think it is that bad, but the F/As definitely lost some of the earlier spark when there were some kinds of competitions, and the F/As were all stressed due to possible reduction of rest time in between trips and less F/As working the cabin. The new XM entertainment system is a nice plus, but the new seats, despite an improvement, falls short of really exciting the passengers, and the herringbone business class seats still need to be studied more and airlines who plan to use them need to address the issues I brought up, and see how you can match up with the original innovator, Virgin Upper Class. Don’t use them till you know what you are doing! My biggest disappointment is the catering department, with severe cutbacks on various catering items that are disappointing at best. I will definitely fly AC again, but hopefully the food service will be slightly improved in the future, and the width issue of the new seats can be addressed with an easy redesign of the armrests.
Thanks for reading!
Carfield
Oct 16, 2007, 2:22 am
#2
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SJC/SFO/OAK
Programs: BD Gold (and future SEN), 0.2MM AA EXP, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 3,107
Excellent TR Carfield!
I have a BD-crediting MR on AC and other *A early next year, and I'm still trying to juggle the schedule to ensure I get on an XM'ed 767 or a 777. Sounds like NZ still has the better hard product, but its good to hear that the seat itself is an improvement over the A345 seat (at least it has 110V AC!). I too enjoyed the spoon-delivered canape served on YYZ-HKG last year as well, and am sad that AC is cutting back meal service to US airline standards
I have a BD-crediting MR on AC and other *A early next year, and I'm still trying to juggle the schedule to ensure I get on an XM'ed 767 or a 777. Sounds like NZ still has the better hard product, but its good to hear that the seat itself is an improvement over the A345 seat (at least it has 110V AC!). I too enjoyed the spoon-delivered canape served on YYZ-HKG last year as well, and am sad that AC is cutting back meal service to US airline standards
Oct 16, 2007, 12:46 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, SQ Gold, KQ Platinum, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Hilton Gold, Marriott Silver, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,351
Nice trip report and pics, thanks for posting.
Sorry to hear the AC's meal service has still not improved, even with the XM product installed. Whilst the new flat bed suites are obviously a big improvement over the old product (especially on some of the older B763ERs and A343s), I still can't believe the lowering of Air Canada's standards.
It's such a shame, because the only premium competition across the pond is BA, whose Club World product (especially the new Club World) is still far better than AC's Executive First.
Sorry to hear the AC's meal service has still not improved, even with the XM product installed. Whilst the new flat bed suites are obviously a big improvement over the old product (especially on some of the older B763ERs and A343s), I still can't believe the lowering of Air Canada's standards.
It's such a shame, because the only premium competition across the pond is BA, whose Club World product (especially the new Club World) is still far better than AC's Executive First.
Oct 17, 2007, 4:37 pm
#5
Moderator: GLBT travelers, India-based Airlines and India; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Asia
Programs: Yes!
Posts: 15,512
Great report! ^
I flew NRT-YVR on AC in J a couple of months back, and my aircraft changed on the day to a 330 with the old J!
I flew NRT-YVR on AC in J a couple of months back, and my aircraft changed on the day to a 330 with the old J!
Oct 17, 2007, 9:50 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: LAX
Posts: 282
Great trip report Carfield!
Interesting observations of the AC seat vs CX C and Virgins Upper Class. You said that the AC food service has declined in the past ten years. In my observations most airlines food service has suffered some sort of decline in the past ten years. You travel much more that me. In your opinion are there any airlines that have improved their food service from say 10 years ago? I would be interested in hearing your opinion.
Again, another great report.^^
Interesting observations of the AC seat vs CX C and Virgins Upper Class. You said that the AC food service has declined in the past ten years. In my observations most airlines food service has suffered some sort of decline in the past ten years. You travel much more that me. In your opinion are there any airlines that have improved their food service from say 10 years ago? I would be interested in hearing your opinion.
Again, another great report.^^
Oct 18, 2007, 5:58 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York
Posts: 7,347
Agree...
Definitely there are lots of cutbacks in the food front... but it usually involves US domestic flights and US airlines and more towards coach class. But for the past year or so, cutbacks happen in business and first class. The only airline that really strives to provide better meals is Singapore Airlines (even J suffers a minor cutback with an appetizer salad instead of both appetizer and salad, and also some of the regional flight has a pre-plated fruit and cheese service, instead of cheese and fruit board)... but even those changes are relatively minor and the new 77W offer better food and more variety and food that are definitely carefully thought out. Not to mention real mid-flight snacks are offered now. SQ improves food.
Other Asian airlines often improve food, but there are cutbacks, but mostly regarding late night flights, when more simpler food is served.
Another airline that has strive to provide more food in J are ANA, and Japan Airlines.
Austrian is also not bad too...
Airlines like Qatar, Ethiad, Emirates also strive to give more...
Unfortunately, most other airlines cut back much in food even in premium class...
But if you ask me, I often paid for my J ticket (some of them are discounted, but I am no "upgrader") so I expect more food. AC has cut back too much in this case... pre-packaged food is pretty much no-no... even DL served mixed nuts in a nice bowl...
The fruit or cheese or dessert options also bother me...
Real premium class should serve all...
Carfield
Other Asian airlines often improve food, but there are cutbacks, but mostly regarding late night flights, when more simpler food is served.
Another airline that has strive to provide more food in J are ANA, and Japan Airlines.
Austrian is also not bad too...
Airlines like Qatar, Ethiad, Emirates also strive to give more...
Unfortunately, most other airlines cut back much in food even in premium class...
But if you ask me, I often paid for my J ticket (some of them are discounted, but I am no "upgrader") so I expect more food. AC has cut back too much in this case... pre-packaged food is pretty much no-no... even DL served mixed nuts in a nice bowl...
The fruit or cheese or dessert options also bother me...
Real premium class should serve all...
Carfield