Dissapointing AA F JFK-LHR
Aug 5, 2006, 12:19 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,904
Dissapointing AA F JFK-LHR
I first want to say I am AA EXP/OW Emerald and from Texas so I really do try and like AA but as we all know they are just not in the same league in trans-atlantic F class.
Here is a brief report of my DCA-JFK-LHR trip.
I was originally scheduled to fly DCA-BOS-LHR but the Eagle flight cancelled due to crew legality from DCA to BOS so they rebooked me on the JFK connection. This was done via phone the night before. It was good of them to call me prior to arrival at the airport even with both the JFK and BOS flights departing at 0600.
This wasn't my first choice as the BOS service that morning I flew was Flagship 1-2-1 and my rebooked JFK flight was 2-2-2- coffin configuration.
The Eagle flight was fine into JFK. There was a beverage service and the flight operated ontime. It was a long walk from gate 31 in T9 to gate 9 in T8.
I did visit the Admirals Club in T8 which is outside security. It is quite large but offers little in terms of food. I did get 1 drink coupon which allowed me to get a bottle of water. I think there was just little bagels or muffins and absolutely nothing else.
Prior to my departure from DCA I did visit the Admirals Club and it offered cookies and mini muffins. I am a UA RCC member and I did go next door because I knew they offered a much better sample of morning foods including yogurt, breakfast bars, and bagels.
Anyway back to JFK...
They did call the flight for boarding and there was no line to speak of for security.
Initially the Admirals Club told me that the flight was empty but when I boarded it was totally full in F. The majority of passengers were AA JFK flight attendants in uniform who were deadheading to work a LAX flight the next morning as the outbound LAX-LHR crew was too delayed to operate their return ontime.
I have mixed feelings about this. While it is a nice perk for them, it really hurts the F experience to have to share the attention of the flight attendants with them but the main problem is the constant socializing and getting up and down to talk about hours, reporting times, hotel pick ups, etc.
As for the working flight attendants, when did AA allow men to not wear ties (1 flight attendant) and another to have a sort of pony tail and really scraggly facial hair sort of like a teenager would. The guy was in his 20's and looked pretty bad.
Before take off, water, champagne and orange juice was offered along with a cart of newspapers including New York Times, Wall St. Journal, FT and USA Today. No English papers offered even though they could have brought them in from the previous day on the night flights from LHR to JFK. Bose headsets, movie cards, and overnight kits were offered. Simple (and totally inadequate for a day flight much less overnight where they are also used) blankets and pillows were on the seats. A least a fake type of duvet would be better.
AA offers a really minimal selection of movies and audio on a cycle system but they do offer a choice of movies on tapes. I asked for Thank You for not Smoking and Friends with Money as an alternate. The flight attendant came back telling me they were both out but she said she would see what she could do. I can only figure with 10 of 18 seats occupied by flight attendants and with them getting 3 of each film that she asked one of them to relinquish their choice. This was a nice (and appreciated) gesture. In fact, she brought me both.
The bad news is that only Friends with Money worked. The other film didn't work as the tape player chose to play the movie for 30 seconds or so and then put it fast forward mode without audio. She brought another copy of the tape to see if that was the problem but it definetely the player as it did the same thing.
This is never a good thing but they were quite apologetic. The flight attendant seated next to me was gracious enough to offer to change seats but I just decided to get some work done instead.
I know most of you are aware of the AA configuration on the 777 in F. The preferred configuration is the much more private Flagship Suites which are in a 1-2-1 configuration. The seats on this flight, known as coffins, were in the 2-2-2- configuration but did go totally 180 degrees flat. The window seat does have to crawl over the aisle when it is fully reclined. There is a privacy screen available only when the seats are reclined.
Food service began right away with a choice of beverages.
With a flight time of 6 hours 4 minutes and a departure time of 0830, a meal plus a cinema snack and pre landing snack were offered.
The flight attendant came around and took orders. Here is the menu:
To Start
Your choice of juices
A selection of fine and traditional teas
Seasonal fresh fruit
Assorted breakfast breads
Yogurt
Cereal with seasonal berries
Entrees
Pepper jack omlette with potato croquette and pomodoro sauce
or
Tomato scallion frittate with shrimp and vegetable salad
or
Whole wheat pancakes with scrambled eggs and a potato cake with blueberry sauce
or
Chicken quesadillas with smoked gouda
All entrees are offered with a choice of cured black pepper bacon or turkey sausage
The flight attendant took my order with was the frittata. She did ask if I wanted fruit and yogurt which I did.
The fruit cup was brought out first along with the yogurt and some blackberries on the side. There was no mention of cereal even though it was on the menu. The frittata was just okay but the grilled shrimp were good but the vegetable salad was wilted and had been pressed down on the plate clearly already tightly wrapped on the plate way before it was brought on the aircraft. Neither my seatmate nor I was asked about the sausage or bacon option on the menu. I got none and she got bacon with her quesadilla which looked just okay too. A bread basket had bisquits, croissants or danishes and was passed twice.
Are AA flight attendants holding back food since the company no longer provides cabin crew with meals even on international flights?
The food on AA F is edible but lacks the freshness and quality presentation of most foreign airlines (like QF, BA, CX, SQ, etc..). Even UA I think has a little better presentation and freshness. The above carriers just don't serve lettuce that is pressed to the plate by plastic and long ago became wilted.
In the middle of the flight, beverages and the cinema snack was offered. It consisted of fresh fruit (2 strawberries) and cheese. It was preplated basil caciotta and black diamond white cheddar with fennel confit (strange taste) and crackers. You were given a choice of crackers and the cheese was fine but again you could tell the quality was not that great.
Duty free and landing cards were passed along with a Fast Track pass for LHR. Our arrival time was 2025 but the card said it closed at something like 1700 but was in fact opended upon arrival.
About 90 minutes prior to landing, the evening meal (their words) was offered. Here is the menu:
Warm mixed nuts (seconds were offered)
Entrees
Ham and swiss croissant with asparagus, zuchinni, hearts of palm and bell peppers.
or
Bulghur wheat salad with scallops and mussels and roasted vegetable slaw
or
Adobo chicken corn chowder with roast pepper sauce
Dessert
Breyers vanilla ice cream with chocolate cookie dough and caramel swirls served with white peach puree and honey nut crunch topping
Wheat rolls and cheese foccacia were offered from the basket.
I asked for water and tomato juice. I got the water but not the tomato juice. I ordered the soup and it was okay if you like Campbells Chunky which I do but again, is it really trans-Atlantic F quality stuff?
We held once in the pattern at LHR but still arrived 20 minutes early.
I can't fault the flight attendants as they were friendly but definetely didn't have the polish or concentration of some of the non-US carriers. Names were never used which I always think is a nice touch in international F at least when taking meal orders.
AA, as we all know, simply has not nor appears willing to upgrade their product as far as lounges, food, blankets, etc. go. The only think they have in their favor is Aadvantage.
I was on a 125,000 mile F class award but their published JFK-LHR fare in F is $10868 round-trip. Would anyone in their right mind pay that kind of money for these offerings? I would even hesitate to buy their round-trip J fare at $7432 and use miles or VIP certificates to upgrade as even that fare is too much for what you get.
I really like AA and wish they had a better product and I really wish we could miles on BA for trans-Atlantic awards from the USA to LHR.
Here is the wine list though I didn't have any:
Champagne
Pommery Brut Champagne
White Wines
Laroche Chablis Premier Cru
Wairau River Marlborough New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc
Red Wines
Chateau Batailley
Penfolds Koonunga Hill Australian Shiraz
Sherry
Emilio Lustau Sherry
Dessert Wine
Graham's Vintage Port
Here is a brief report of my DCA-JFK-LHR trip.
I was originally scheduled to fly DCA-BOS-LHR but the Eagle flight cancelled due to crew legality from DCA to BOS so they rebooked me on the JFK connection. This was done via phone the night before. It was good of them to call me prior to arrival at the airport even with both the JFK and BOS flights departing at 0600.
This wasn't my first choice as the BOS service that morning I flew was Flagship 1-2-1 and my rebooked JFK flight was 2-2-2- coffin configuration.
The Eagle flight was fine into JFK. There was a beverage service and the flight operated ontime. It was a long walk from gate 31 in T9 to gate 9 in T8.
I did visit the Admirals Club in T8 which is outside security. It is quite large but offers little in terms of food. I did get 1 drink coupon which allowed me to get a bottle of water. I think there was just little bagels or muffins and absolutely nothing else.
Prior to my departure from DCA I did visit the Admirals Club and it offered cookies and mini muffins. I am a UA RCC member and I did go next door because I knew they offered a much better sample of morning foods including yogurt, breakfast bars, and bagels.
Anyway back to JFK...
They did call the flight for boarding and there was no line to speak of for security.
Initially the Admirals Club told me that the flight was empty but when I boarded it was totally full in F. The majority of passengers were AA JFK flight attendants in uniform who were deadheading to work a LAX flight the next morning as the outbound LAX-LHR crew was too delayed to operate their return ontime.
I have mixed feelings about this. While it is a nice perk for them, it really hurts the F experience to have to share the attention of the flight attendants with them but the main problem is the constant socializing and getting up and down to talk about hours, reporting times, hotel pick ups, etc.
As for the working flight attendants, when did AA allow men to not wear ties (1 flight attendant) and another to have a sort of pony tail and really scraggly facial hair sort of like a teenager would. The guy was in his 20's and looked pretty bad.
Before take off, water, champagne and orange juice was offered along with a cart of newspapers including New York Times, Wall St. Journal, FT and USA Today. No English papers offered even though they could have brought them in from the previous day on the night flights from LHR to JFK. Bose headsets, movie cards, and overnight kits were offered. Simple (and totally inadequate for a day flight much less overnight where they are also used) blankets and pillows were on the seats. A least a fake type of duvet would be better.
AA offers a really minimal selection of movies and audio on a cycle system but they do offer a choice of movies on tapes. I asked for Thank You for not Smoking and Friends with Money as an alternate. The flight attendant came back telling me they were both out but she said she would see what she could do. I can only figure with 10 of 18 seats occupied by flight attendants and with them getting 3 of each film that she asked one of them to relinquish their choice. This was a nice (and appreciated) gesture. In fact, she brought me both.
The bad news is that only Friends with Money worked. The other film didn't work as the tape player chose to play the movie for 30 seconds or so and then put it fast forward mode without audio. She brought another copy of the tape to see if that was the problem but it definetely the player as it did the same thing.
This is never a good thing but they were quite apologetic. The flight attendant seated next to me was gracious enough to offer to change seats but I just decided to get some work done instead.
I know most of you are aware of the AA configuration on the 777 in F. The preferred configuration is the much more private Flagship Suites which are in a 1-2-1 configuration. The seats on this flight, known as coffins, were in the 2-2-2- configuration but did go totally 180 degrees flat. The window seat does have to crawl over the aisle when it is fully reclined. There is a privacy screen available only when the seats are reclined.
Food service began right away with a choice of beverages.
With a flight time of 6 hours 4 minutes and a departure time of 0830, a meal plus a cinema snack and pre landing snack were offered.
The flight attendant came around and took orders. Here is the menu:
To Start
Your choice of juices
A selection of fine and traditional teas
Seasonal fresh fruit
Assorted breakfast breads
Yogurt
Cereal with seasonal berries
Entrees
Pepper jack omlette with potato croquette and pomodoro sauce
or
Tomato scallion frittate with shrimp and vegetable salad
or
Whole wheat pancakes with scrambled eggs and a potato cake with blueberry sauce
or
Chicken quesadillas with smoked gouda
All entrees are offered with a choice of cured black pepper bacon or turkey sausage
The flight attendant took my order with was the frittata. She did ask if I wanted fruit and yogurt which I did.
The fruit cup was brought out first along with the yogurt and some blackberries on the side. There was no mention of cereal even though it was on the menu. The frittata was just okay but the grilled shrimp were good but the vegetable salad was wilted and had been pressed down on the plate clearly already tightly wrapped on the plate way before it was brought on the aircraft. Neither my seatmate nor I was asked about the sausage or bacon option on the menu. I got none and she got bacon with her quesadilla which looked just okay too. A bread basket had bisquits, croissants or danishes and was passed twice.
Are AA flight attendants holding back food since the company no longer provides cabin crew with meals even on international flights?
The food on AA F is edible but lacks the freshness and quality presentation of most foreign airlines (like QF, BA, CX, SQ, etc..). Even UA I think has a little better presentation and freshness. The above carriers just don't serve lettuce that is pressed to the plate by plastic and long ago became wilted.
In the middle of the flight, beverages and the cinema snack was offered. It consisted of fresh fruit (2 strawberries) and cheese. It was preplated basil caciotta and black diamond white cheddar with fennel confit (strange taste) and crackers. You were given a choice of crackers and the cheese was fine but again you could tell the quality was not that great.
Duty free and landing cards were passed along with a Fast Track pass for LHR. Our arrival time was 2025 but the card said it closed at something like 1700 but was in fact opended upon arrival.
About 90 minutes prior to landing, the evening meal (their words) was offered. Here is the menu:
Warm mixed nuts (seconds were offered)
Entrees
Ham and swiss croissant with asparagus, zuchinni, hearts of palm and bell peppers.
or
Bulghur wheat salad with scallops and mussels and roasted vegetable slaw
or
Adobo chicken corn chowder with roast pepper sauce
Dessert
Breyers vanilla ice cream with chocolate cookie dough and caramel swirls served with white peach puree and honey nut crunch topping
Wheat rolls and cheese foccacia were offered from the basket.
I asked for water and tomato juice. I got the water but not the tomato juice. I ordered the soup and it was okay if you like Campbells Chunky which I do but again, is it really trans-Atlantic F quality stuff?
We held once in the pattern at LHR but still arrived 20 minutes early.
I can't fault the flight attendants as they were friendly but definetely didn't have the polish or concentration of some of the non-US carriers. Names were never used which I always think is a nice touch in international F at least when taking meal orders.
AA, as we all know, simply has not nor appears willing to upgrade their product as far as lounges, food, blankets, etc. go. The only think they have in their favor is Aadvantage.
I was on a 125,000 mile F class award but their published JFK-LHR fare in F is $10868 round-trip. Would anyone in their right mind pay that kind of money for these offerings? I would even hesitate to buy their round-trip J fare at $7432 and use miles or VIP certificates to upgrade as even that fare is too much for what you get.
I really like AA and wish they had a better product and I really wish we could miles on BA for trans-Atlantic awards from the USA to LHR.
Here is the wine list though I didn't have any:
Champagne
Pommery Brut Champagne
White Wines
Laroche Chablis Premier Cru
Wairau River Marlborough New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc
Red Wines
Chateau Batailley
Penfolds Koonunga Hill Australian Shiraz
Sherry
Emilio Lustau Sherry
Dessert Wine
Graham's Vintage Port
Aug 5, 2006, 12:36 pm
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
I used to fly AA transatlantic F about 10-12 RTs/year and always thought the service the last couple years was spotty. I used to order special meals - fruit plates - which they got rid of - then low-cal - which they got rid of. The last straw was a flight similar to yours - half the cabin was deadheading FAs. They were noisy the entire flight. What's more, when they got to me, my entree choices were gone. They did the typical FEBO taking FAs orders at the same time as regular pax. I would have seriously thought they would have come to the FAs after the regular pax. However, the most annoying part was that the FAs had a gab fest. As there are no curtains between the forward galley and 1A it made it hard to sleep. Another pax said something and was greeted with a curt enough response he said it would be his last AA flight as he passed my seat. I since have qualified for Gold Tier (last December) on BA. Many times I fly J on BA which I would take anyday over F on AA. Too bad AA can't get its act together. I have five Europe trips this Fall and AA will get none except a chance OW JFK-CDG. There is a lot of money being spent in the front of the plane - I find it hard to believe AA couldn't get a decent ROI if they focused on putting together a world-class F/J service. The seating in F would be competitive if they could assign only top FAs to the cabin, upgrade the meals, put curtains and sleep suits. Also a dining on demand type service in F would be nice.
Aug 5, 2006, 3:57 pm
#3
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: BA
Posts: 3,890
Originally Posted by chuck1
I did get 1 drink coupon which allowed me to get a bottle of water.
Just one quick thing... I thought non-alcoholic drinks were complimentary and the drinks vouchers were only for alcoholic drinks
Could you clarify this for me? Thanks!
Aug 5, 2006, 4:05 pm
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
Originally Posted by More Champagne Sir?
Great report ^ ^
Just one quick thing... I thought non-alcoholic drinks were complimentary and the drinks vouchers were only for alcoholic drinks Could you clarify this for me? Thanks!
Just one quick thing... I thought non-alcoholic drinks were complimentary and the drinks vouchers were only for alcoholic drinks
Could you clarify this for me? Thanks!
Aug 5, 2006, 4:40 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: QLA
Programs: SBUX Gold
Posts: 14,507
Originally Posted by chuck1
I have mixed feelings about this. While it is a nice perk for them, it really hurts the F experience to have to share the attention of the flight attendants with them but the main problem is the constant socializing and getting up and down to talk about hours, reporting times, hotel pick ups, etc.
If you have a problem with deadheading FAs just merely sitting in F, then I would have to respectfully disagree. They were obviously called up last minute to fill in for a late ex-LAX crew... imagine if you were them, and your company decided to stick you in Y and not be paid for the flight over there.
Aug 5, 2006, 4:45 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,904
Well in this case the noisiness was the main problem, but when other passengers like an earlier post here indicated, I do have a problem when you don't get your first meal choice or movie choice.
Not to mention the fact that when one pays $10,000 should they not be entitled to some extra space and privacy when it is possible when revenue and mileage customers haven't booked the cabin full?
I think you will find that most non US airlines with really excellent F cabins don't put staff there regardless of their reason of travel.
In this case, these were a group of JFK international based flight attendants who were all on reserve who were headed to a hotel at LHR to work a flight the next morning. Are they not paid for this?
If so, that is a big problem with AA but in any case if you knew your presence in the cabin took away from the comfort of your paying passengers (and thus your meal ticket) would you not be willing to sit in economy as long as you were being paid?
When DL was 3 class, no employee was ever allowed into international F. I think the same applies at airlines like CX and SQ (except for Captain level and family). BA has some rigid standards too.
Not to mention the fact that when one pays $10,000 should they not be entitled to some extra space and privacy when it is possible when revenue and mileage customers haven't booked the cabin full?
I think you will find that most non US airlines with really excellent F cabins don't put staff there regardless of their reason of travel.
In this case, these were a group of JFK international based flight attendants who were all on reserve who were headed to a hotel at LHR to work a flight the next morning. Are they not paid for this?
If so, that is a big problem with AA but in any case if you knew your presence in the cabin took away from the comfort of your paying passengers (and thus your meal ticket) would you not be willing to sit in economy as long as you were being paid?
When DL was 3 class, no employee was ever allowed into international F. I think the same applies at airlines like CX and SQ (except for Captain level and family). BA has some rigid standards too.
Aug 5, 2006, 4:50 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,904
Oh...and I forgot to add 2 rounds of disposal fake hot towels.
At one point I mistakenly took 2 and the flight attendant had to get one back as she told me they are only provisioned for 1 per person so no dropping them or given out extras.
At one point I mistakenly took 2 and the flight attendant had to get one back as she told me they are only provisioned for 1 per person so no dropping them or given out extras.
Aug 5, 2006, 5:21 pm
#10
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 17,769
Originally Posted by IceTrojan
If you have a problem with deadheading FAs just merely sitting in F, then I would have to respectfully disagree. They were obviously called up last minute to fill in for a late ex-LAX crew... imagine if you were them, and your company decided to stick you in Y and not be paid for the flight over there.
Agree with OP; NRSA's are a problem in international F.
Aug 5, 2006, 7:28 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, AA Gold
Posts: 3,640
Originally Posted by IceTrojan
Just to be clear, you have a problem with the FAs being noisy in F, yes? If so I agree with you, they really should maintain the inherently quiet atmosphere of F.
If you have a problem with deadheading FAs just merely sitting in F, then I would have to respectfully disagree. They were obviously called up last minute to fill in for a late ex-LAX crew... imagine if you were them, and your company decided to stick you in Y and not be paid for the flight over there.
If you have a problem with deadheading FAs just merely sitting in F, then I would have to respectfully disagree. They were obviously called up last minute to fill in for a late ex-LAX crew... imagine if you were them, and your company decided to stick you in Y and not be paid for the flight over there.
Aug 5, 2006, 8:50 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: South Bend, IN
Programs: AA EXP 3 MM; Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium Elite
Posts: 18,562
This is why I won't take a Coffins flight. Even if it looks like is going to be empty, last minute stuff like this happens and a seatmate pretty effectively ruins the flight. My miles or my VIPs are too valuable to waste on the Coffins. Too much uncertainty for my taste.
Aug 5, 2006, 9:07 pm
#15
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Capital of British Brewing
Posts: 294
Originally Posted by chuck1
Well in this case the noisiness was the main problem, but when other passengers like an earlier post here indicated, I do have a problem when you don't get your first meal choice or movie choice.
Not to mention the fact that when one pays $10,000 should they not be entitled to some extra space and privacy when it is possible when revenue and mileage customers haven't booked the cabin full?
Not to mention the fact that when one pays $10,000 should they not be entitled to some extra space and privacy when it is possible when revenue and mileage customers haven't booked the cabin full?
That being said, you are absolutely right that revenue pax should be served first, be given the first choice of meals, movie and any other amenity. And deadheads or other non-revs should be as unobtrusive as possible. Carriers' non-rev rules are in place to try to make sure this happens, but rules, as we all know, get broken. Sometimes it's just more convenient for FAs to take meal orders FEBO, or they want to extend "professional courtesy" to their colleagues, etc.
I don't see any problem with having a quiet word with the purser on board if non-revs or deadheads are disrupting your rest, as many times as is necessary to get the point across, or writing a letter later if your meal choice was unavailable because it went to a deadheading crew member a row up. Especially in int'l F.