ual902

I think both.

Shimon

Can anyone confirm this 100%?

2035

No. The caterer for airline meals is Bangkok Air Catering. See website

http://www.bangkokaircatering.com/kosher-meal.php

You can also see a copy of the certificate there.

Rabbi Kantor runs the restaurant and Chabad in Bangkok, but meals do not come from there - they have a kosher area in the main kitchen at Bangkok Air Catering which he supervises. This is also the same arrangement for the meals on daily El Al flights from BKK - they are made in the kosher kitchen at the airport commissary.

See also for more details

http://www.bangkokaircatering.com/news-detail-2.php

http://www.bangkokaircatering.com/news-detail-1.php

Shimon

Thank you! Similar to the Hong Kong arrangement except the HK one is the local community.

sam33

I will just add this - from extensive personal knowledge. The four kosher restaurants run by Chabad in Thailand lose money every single month (though less than they used to) and have done so since the day they opened. It is not a profit center and was created first and foremost to prevent as many Israeli backpackers as possible from eating the worst types of treif, and to provide a service to local and visiting Jews.
Rabbis Kantor and Wilhelm are both exceptional talmidei chachomim and yirei-shomayim, as will be attested to by anybody who has met or dealt with them. For these reasons, I personally feel more comfortable relying on their hashgocho than any other worldwide.

Shimon

He could be wrapping million dollar cheques with each meal. Doesn't make a difference halakhically. You wouldn't call a trief wedding kosher because the couple are paying for everyone's meals.

If they "lose" money every month then their operators would be on the street. I'd could believe you if you told me they are being subsidised by other ventures. Though it would be very unusual. Communities have funded their needs for centuries using taxes on kosher food. Chabad has somewhat privatised this in small communities where there is no establishment.

Kashrut is one of the 613 mitzvot. Halakha is very clear on what is permissible and prohibited. It isn't about who you feel comfortable relying on. Leave that type of feeling and quasi-thinking of business not mizvot!

Needless to say hasgachot are all equal in permitting food. If they are following halakha and meet your personal level then there is no difference.

sam33

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again, unfortunately. Halachically, running a kosher supervision as a for-profit enterprise creates certain concerns (although most hechsherim today do it). My point was simply that since neither the restaurant nor the supervision in this case are run for financial gain, their supervision is far superior in this regard halachically (YD 119 etc). This is a basic halachic standard in both yoreh-deah and choshen mishpat, and has nothing to do with my opinion, so all hashgachot are certainly not equal.

Your financial analysis of their operation ignores the simple fact that what they do (including the kosher operation) is provide a community service whose deficits are covered by fundraising, including the restaurant etc.
Thanks for the tip on kashrut and the mitzvot, but as I already mentioned, a hechsher not operating for profit is far superior in that regard to the other type. Your expertise on 'Chabad privatising this in small communities' notwithstanding, I was speaking specifically about the situation in Thailand with which I am very familiar (from personal knowledge and not guesstimation), as it were.

I mentioned the Rabbi's halachic knowledge and my opinion of their piety simply because these are crucial (halachic) factors in assessing the reliability of any hashgacha.

Shimon

Yes they are. Once food is permitted it is permitted. A personal hashgacha isn't going to be able to supervise what a bet din hashgacha is able to. etc... I'm talking from the POV once the food is permitted. You are talking about permitting the food in the first place.

There is only one real exception in the Shulchan Aruch. S"A states non-chalak meat is permitted. Yet it gives preference to chalak.

Halakha says many times food is permitted when rationally we should have doubt. That is why it is a chok.

sam33

I'm afraid I've totally lost you...
My point was that a kosher-supervision operating for profit is halachically inferior to one operating for the sake of kashrus alone (all else being equal). AFAIK, Chabad of Thailand is one of very few in the world today that do the latter.

Shimon

Your definition of profit is highly questionable. Obvious the Kantor's aren't living on the street and unless they have a million dollar bank account their living off or another business they are profiting off the fund raising they do.

craz

I agree with You, after all alot of people will eat by them for Shabbos and they dont charge lets say like many Chabad places. But then after Shabbos give a check that far out weighs what the price would have been. its not made out to Restaurant Chabad but say to BKK Chabad so unless BKK C knows and adds that check to the restaurants accts, a Shabbos will have a very negative cash outflow when in fact it may have made 1000s of $$

I may be wrong but i dont think any of these guys are becoming millionaires that are out there (1 exception sort of is the 1 in HKG, where he was going to leave and the community purchased an apt for them near the reg Jewish area far from cheap, question unknown to me is if those who purchased it still own it or does the Rabbi) But they will use all the funds coming in as they see fit to and to support them and their families

sam33

As I said, Chabad Houses in Thailand support their operation by fundraising (as I imagine most Chabad Houses do) and not by the restaurant which brings in less revenue than it spends. By your definition, Enron can be considered to have been profitable....

craz

well if they didnt have the meals that result in those donations (not going to repaet an old debate) they wouldnt be able to remain afloat. So in a way the restaurant is a Profit center and in many cases their only 1 since there isnt any local community to fund raise from.

In NYC I knew restaurants that made most of their profits based on the parties and meals for meetings in offices that they catered. the restaurant helped out but when they lose the caterering part they close up

I would agree 100% with you if the Shabbos meals didnt have anything to do with the restaurant. So if the food doesnt come from there, you dont eat there, its not cooked there then its 2 different ops, otherwise its 1 op. Which there isnt anything wrong with.

benberg2013

Seems like this link no-longer shows the kosher meal option.

Just booked TLV-AMM-DOH-JNB-DOH-LCA ($475! ) and kosher meal was not an option in the special meals. But a call to the call centre, they ordered kosher. Maybe they don't want to publicize their Relations with Jews/israelis...

GUWonder

http://www.qatarairways.com/mz/pt/sp...uirements.page

http://www.qatarairways.com/es/es/sp...uirements.page

http://www.qatarairways.com/tr/tr/sp...uirements.page

KSML is listed by Qatar on its website in at least three places on its website.