QF good at upgrading its Plats?
#61
Moderator, Hilton Honors
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Welcome to Flyer Talk drsmithy
If you are referring to the incremental cost of food and beverage you might be right (then again some FTers can drink much more than this on longhaul flights ).
However, the cost to QF is not just better quality food and drinks. There is also a ongoing revenue impact. By being stingy with upgrades QF ensures that more passengers pay for business or first class than would otherwise be the case. That has a very real and large impact. Witness the difference in the profitability of QF and other major asia-pacific airlines compared with US-based airlines - at least some of that is due to the high revenue from the premium cabins on QF (and mainly awards and upgraders on US-based airlines). This also affects the quality of the premium cabins - QF has much better business and first class than the likes of United or American. One reason is they can afford to provide better seats, IFE, etc from the high revenue of that cabin.
Further, by not upgrading willy nilly, in the event not all seats sell out it provides a better experience for those who have paid many thousands of dollars for the premium cabin. This is a much better experience than being in a premium cabin that is full due to upgrading pax.
If you are referring to the incremental cost of food and beverage you might be right (then again some FTers can drink much more than this on longhaul flights ).
However, the cost to QF is not just better quality food and drinks. There is also a ongoing revenue impact. By being stingy with upgrades QF ensures that more passengers pay for business or first class than would otherwise be the case. That has a very real and large impact. Witness the difference in the profitability of QF and other major asia-pacific airlines compared with US-based airlines - at least some of that is due to the high revenue from the premium cabins on QF (and mainly awards and upgraders on US-based airlines). This also affects the quality of the premium cabins - QF has much better business and first class than the likes of United or American. One reason is they can afford to provide better seats, IFE, etc from the high revenue of that cabin.
Further, by not upgrading willy nilly, in the event not all seats sell out it provides a better experience for those who have paid many thousands of dollars for the premium cabin. This is a much better experience than being in a premium cabin that is full due to upgrading pax.
#62
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
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It's difficult to see how the additional cost to the airline of a single existing passenger flying in J instead of Y (assuming they aren't displacing another fare-paying J) even constitutes as a rounding error, in the context of a whole flight's revenue (I'd be astounded if it was even $100).
I think the point there is how ridiculously stingy it was of QF not to upgrade.
I think the point there is how ridiculously stingy it was of QF not to upgrade.
But because everyone is getting eVIPs, complimentary upgrades etc. people only book economy because they know there is a high chance for upgrading into a higher cabin.
I would never risk to book economy on QF and hope for an upgrade. So this is why I am spending $$$ on QF but would only spend $ on AA.
#63
Join Date: Jul 2002
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The mysteries of what prompts a random op-up can be boggling! My young daughter, a oneworld Sapphire, was once op-upped on a flight from SYD to LAX a few days after befriending a girl her age that she had met during an art gallery visit. That girl just happened to be the daughter of a QF CSM! My daughter mentioned to the girl that she was heading back to So. California on a specific date and on the date of travel, while my daughter was inside the Qantas Club as a oneworld Sapphire, she was called to the desk to find that she had been upped!
I've never been op-upped by QF, but have been many times by CX, BA & AA.
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I've never been op-upped by QF, but have been many times by CX, BA & AA.
*
Last edited by prspad; Jan 21, 2008 at 4:09 pm Reason: correct error
#64
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold(OWE), QF LTG, MR Plat, IHG Spire, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,156
The mysteries of what prompts a random op-up can be boggling! My young daughter, a oneworld Sapphire, was once op-upped on a flight from SYD to LAX a few days after befriending a girl her age that she had met during an art gallery visit. That girl just happened to be the daughter of a QF CSM! My daughter mentioned to the girl that she was heading back to So. California on a specific date and on the date of travel, while my daughter was inside the Qantas Club as a oneworld Sapphire, she was called to the desk to find that she had been upped!
I've never been op-upped by QF, but have been many times by CP, BA & AA.
*
I've never been op-upped by QF, but have been many times by CP, BA & AA.
*
#65
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: QF, Golden Circle, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 188
Mel/Akl
Last week's trip was as follows:
- Kerbside First class check-in (my first time)
- Upgrade to J
- The lovely First class lounge
- Upgrade to J on the return
All in all a pretty impressive package for an economy fare which left me feeling that Platinum status was pretty handy.
- Kerbside First class check-in (my first time)
- Upgrade to J
- The lovely First class lounge
- Upgrade to J on the return
All in all a pretty impressive package for an economy fare which left me feeling that Platinum status was pretty handy.
#66
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MEL/LAX
Programs: AAdv GLD(MM), QF LTS, UA MP_nada, HH Gld, SPG, GoldenCircle Jade
Posts: 4,472
The mysteries of what prompts a random op-up can be boggling! My young daughter, a oneworld Sapphire, was once op-upped on a flight from SYD to LAX a few days after befriending a girl her age that she had met during an art gallery visit. That girl just happened to be the daughter of a QF CSM! My daughter mentioned to the girl that she was heading back to So. California on a specific date and on the date of travel, while my daughter was inside the Qantas Club as a oneworld Sapphire, she was called to the desk to find that she had been upped!
I've never been op-upped by QF, but have been many times by CX, BA & AA.
*
I've never been op-upped by QF, but have been many times by CX, BA & AA.
*
#67
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MEL/LAX
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Posts: 4,472
Welcome to Flyer Talk drsmithy
If you are referring to the incremental cost of food and beverage you might be right (then again some FTers can drink much more than this on longhaul flights ).
However, the cost to QF is not just better quality food and drinks. There is also a ongoing revenue impact. By being stingy with upgrades QF ensures that more passengers pay for business or first class than would otherwise be the case. That has a very real and large impact. Witness the difference in the profitability of QF and other major asia-pacific airlines compared with US-based airlines - at least some of that is due to the high revenue from the premium cabins on QF (and mainly awards and upgraders on US-based airlines). This also affects the quality of the premium cabins - QF has much better business and first class than the likes of United or American. One reason is they can afford to provide better seats, IFE, etc from the high revenue of that cabin.
Further, by not upgrading willy nilly, in the event not all seats sell out it provides a better experience for those who have paid many thousands of dollars for the premium cabin. This is a much better experience than being in a premium cabin that is full due to upgrading pax.
If you are referring to the incremental cost of food and beverage you might be right (then again some FTers can drink much more than this on longhaul flights ).
However, the cost to QF is not just better quality food and drinks. There is also a ongoing revenue impact. By being stingy with upgrades QF ensures that more passengers pay for business or first class than would otherwise be the case. That has a very real and large impact. Witness the difference in the profitability of QF and other major asia-pacific airlines compared with US-based airlines - at least some of that is due to the high revenue from the premium cabins on QF (and mainly awards and upgraders on US-based airlines). This also affects the quality of the premium cabins - QF has much better business and first class than the likes of United or American. One reason is they can afford to provide better seats, IFE, etc from the high revenue of that cabin.
Further, by not upgrading willy nilly, in the event not all seats sell out it provides a better experience for those who have paid many thousands of dollars for the premium cabin. This is a much better experience than being in a premium cabin that is full due to upgrading pax.
#68
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
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sure - and AA is in a different marketspace from QF, which is partly my point
by not setting those kind of upgrade offers and managing passenger expectations the asia-pacific airlines are not in a cut-throat race to the bottom (granted there are issues in some markets about competing with LCCs and the existence of protected markets)
on the whole US legacy carriers are not doing well financially, at least compared with many other major carriers elsewhere
anyway, I'm no expert but just wanted to point out it isn't as straightforward as a statement "upgrades have minimal cost" may appear
by not setting those kind of upgrade offers and managing passenger expectations the asia-pacific airlines are not in a cut-throat race to the bottom (granted there are issues in some markets about competing with LCCs and the existence of protected markets)
on the whole US legacy carriers are not doing well financially, at least compared with many other major carriers elsewhere
anyway, I'm no expert but just wanted to point out it isn't as straightforward as a statement "upgrades have minimal cost" may appear
#69
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I suspect that if they thought that they could wean people off of expecting something for nothing , that they would
Dave
#70
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
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But, both carriers operate in a very different marketplaces. The competitive landscape in the US is very different than in Australia or other countries.
In most other countries governments have helped one main carrier to become strong (QF, LH, AF etc.). In the US, the government repeatedly has subsidized all airlines but only to the degree that they don't collapse. So they all lack the funds for new equipment and investments.
#71
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,329
On my last long haul with QF (LAX-SYD in Y....) I was at the airport rather early as a result of rental car issues.... I was actually surprised to find staff at the QF desks (well.. one young guy) that early AND prepared to check me in.... So far so good...
After we dealt with my "restricted goods".. a process that takes bit more time and tends to result in more conversation.. I asked.. (without any real expectation) about an exit row seat..
He said "Sure".. and printed out a BP for an exit row aisle...^
So far very bloody good indeed.
Boarded.. and joined my exit row seatmates... we grinned at each other and shared the expecation of a comfortable flight...
Bloody good indeed.....
At which point it all went pear shaped. A FA informed us they "had a problem".. A POS who "couldn't fit in their seat"
Long story short.. moved by the crew from the exit aisle to a middle bulkhead. (After that 14 hour flight I am mystified as to what anyone sees in bulkhead seats!)
I can understand revenue protection.. I can understand protecting the premium cabins... I understand that I WAS still in the type of seat I had paid for..
BUT... Having "got in early", made the effort and specifically requested a decent seat..... to go from that best possible seat to one that I found more than a little uncomfortable... to make way for someone else who had it must be remembered only paid for a "normal" Y seat as well seemed pretty unfair to me... and left a bad taste...
Yes, I did suggest being moved forward might be a nice gesture - even doing so AFTER the meal service and after the lights had been dimmed would have been great..... sue me for suggesting that! (Or they could have moved Mr BIG quietly and left us alone...) but no..... "there's your new seat"
There is a lot of talk here on FT about seat swap requests... many folks (rightly in my view) say they will only swap for "equal or better"...
And when the Cabin crew are the ones to move you? And it's not "equal or better"? And you really don't feel (because it's the crew) that you can "just say no!"?
It MAY be unreasonable.. but that was the incident that pushed me to flying NZ from then on...
After we dealt with my "restricted goods".. a process that takes bit more time and tends to result in more conversation.. I asked.. (without any real expectation) about an exit row seat..
He said "Sure".. and printed out a BP for an exit row aisle...^
So far very bloody good indeed.
Boarded.. and joined my exit row seatmates... we grinned at each other and shared the expecation of a comfortable flight...
Bloody good indeed.....
At which point it all went pear shaped. A FA informed us they "had a problem".. A POS who "couldn't fit in their seat"
Long story short.. moved by the crew from the exit aisle to a middle bulkhead. (After that 14 hour flight I am mystified as to what anyone sees in bulkhead seats!)
I can understand revenue protection.. I can understand protecting the premium cabins... I understand that I WAS still in the type of seat I had paid for..
BUT... Having "got in early", made the effort and specifically requested a decent seat..... to go from that best possible seat to one that I found more than a little uncomfortable... to make way for someone else who had it must be remembered only paid for a "normal" Y seat as well seemed pretty unfair to me... and left a bad taste...
Yes, I did suggest being moved forward might be a nice gesture - even doing so AFTER the meal service and after the lights had been dimmed would have been great..... sue me for suggesting that! (Or they could have moved Mr BIG quietly and left us alone...) but no..... "there's your new seat"
There is a lot of talk here on FT about seat swap requests... many folks (rightly in my view) say they will only swap for "equal or better"...
And when the Cabin crew are the ones to move you? And it's not "equal or better"? And you really don't feel (because it's the crew) that you can "just say no!"?
It MAY be unreasonable.. but that was the incident that pushed me to flying NZ from then on...
#72
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I posit that the analysis was that given the other US domestic carriers also offering free/cheap upgrades to "elite" ( what is elite about having sat in a plane I wonder though ) members, that if they were to go away from the upgrade candy jar, they would lose lots of their "loyal" members to the competition.
I suspect that if they thought that they could wean people off of expecting something for nothing , that they would
Dave
I suspect that if they thought that they could wean people off of expecting something for nothing , that they would
Dave
#73
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I don't think you were unreasonable - I think unless there is a safety issue I would be pretty adamant that I would not move. In fact having a POS in an exit row could be a safety risk in itself as they may not be able to move fast enough in an emergency situation. If the POS thinks they need an exit row they can make the effort as you did (accidently or not) of getting one - I don't think it's fair they just turn up, get whatever seat and then onboard complain that they want a more roomy seat
#74
Join Date: Mar 2006
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At which point it all went pear shaped. A FA informed us they "had a problem".. A POS who "couldn't fit in their seat"
Long story short.. moved by the crew from the exit aisle to a middle bulkhead. (After that 14 hour flight I am mystified as to what anyone sees in bulkhead seats!)
Long story short.. moved by the crew from the exit aisle to a middle bulkhead. (After that 14 hour flight I am mystified as to what anyone sees in bulkhead seats!)
#75
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A good example of this competition relates to fuel fines in the US. Over the last few weeks both UA and AA have tried to increase them but have had to backtrack.
See this thread:
See this thread: