TomK87

Hi All -- Moving from the US to Sydney for about four years, and will be spending a fair amount of time on Qantas going forward. (I'm currently Delta Diamond and AA Platinum.)

Question: if you were starting from scratch, as I basically am, would you build miles in the Qantas program, or should I just use my AA number? Miles will be used primarily to fly family to/from the US and Australia.

In reading through all the Qantas threads, it seems like there is a fair amount of dissatisfaction with the program. Do you dislike it enough that I should just funnel everything to AA?

Thanks everyone.
Tom

number_6

QFF is a great program for earning status if you fly J or F, otherwise AAdvantage has better earn/burn rates even with the upcoming devaluation. So it all depends upon your objective and flying pattern as to which is optimal. QF does take better care of you with high status than AA does fwiw, but this is way aboue the AA plat/DL diamond status so it sounds like not relevant to your decision. Most will find AA preferable, I am lucky to be able to use both but if had to choose just one would probably pick AA despite QF having many advantages (just not free flights ).

Mwenenzi

TomK87 Welcome to FT & Aussie
What will you flying profile be?

Look here:- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...help-here.html
Several QF vs AA threads linked in post 3

Also look at post 330 for AA & QF award costs. AA wins, even after the recent changes

With QF you can get QF points for non flying activities & Au credit card.
QF Gold/Plat (OW sapphire/emerald) will give you lounge access for AA domestic USA flights, where as the equivalent AA status will not. But AA domestic lounges are AA domestic lounges.
Upgrades with QF do not work like AA upgrades. You will be disappointed if you are expecting the same.

For 4 years I would stay with AA. Especially now as AA fly SYD-LAX
Delta is a partner of Virgin Australia

windycityf

TomK787
I myself am making the move down to Australia and asked the same questions. I've been United loyal for years. I finally had to give into One World. I've also checked out Virgin Australia which a partner of Delta.
I prefer status vs miles, I will be going back and forth a lot, so I am not worried about earning miles. And burning is not easy as I do not have much flexibility in terms of days of travel.

As other have stated if your goal is purely to earn miles to for award travel, I would stick to American.
Another option to consider is Virgin, given your Delta status. You would not have to switch programs at all.

Good luck on your move!

harryhv

Qantas has one of the world's worst frequent flyer programs in terms of its high burn rates, colossal surcharges and lottery-based upgrades even for top-status members.

If you're thinking of booking economy transpac awards for your family using Qantas points, forget it, the surcharges are as much as a discount Y fare. And the J and F redemptions have the same surcharges and cost a hatful of points, about double the AA miles for the exact same seat [even after the upcoming AA devaluation.]

But the Qantas lounges are nice, so be sure to maintain your oneworld sapphire status.

Qantas points are good for toasters and perhaps economy redemptions for expensive short sectors, and not bad for domestic (Australia) points-upgrades on the "normal" economy fare classes (what Qantas calls super-duper-deep-discount-red-e-deal-special-sale fares, but the "sales" are every other week.)

Now Virgin, a Delta partner, has somewhat better burn rates and is equivalent to Qantas in most other ways, and they have a friendlier fly-ahead policy (same day standby isn't normally offered over here). Again if you're flying Virgin be sure to maintain enough Delta status for the lounge access.

TomK87

Thanks everyone, I very much appreciate your thoughts guidance! Although there is no perfect answer, it sounds like AA is the better option for us.

See you in Sydney…

JAGMAP

You'll undoubtedly need memberships in both programs. Qantas partners with nearly every retail store, dining establishment, movie theater chain, mobile provider, etc. and points add up.

Enjoy your time!

captain_starwood

re-opening this thread as another American moving to Sydney for a while. I don't have AA, but I've been trying to figure out whether to make a bet on Qantas vs. Virgin.

I have a feeling I will end up using both, but wanted to choose credit card to try to accumulate more points in one program. Seems like Qantas is particularly bad for long-hauls, whereas they are similar for short hauls.

Tomk87, what did you end up doing?

Platy

Potentially smarter (i.e. more flexible, access to better earn/burn rates) option (depending on your personal circumstances) is to avoid the airline branded credit cards altogether and get local cards which accumulate generic credit card point which can be transferred to airlines of choice...examples include:

Citibank VISA Prestige - can transfer to Virgin Australia, Singapore Airlines, etc. Generous points earn on non AUD transactions. Handy fourth night free hotel booking service.

American Express Platinum - can transfer to Virgin Australia and Qantas, and many others, and to SPG as a back door to all of their endless list of transfer partners

Both the above cards have substantial sign up bonuses to offset the high annual fees - plus various hotel chain status recognition.

Singapore airlines burn rates are substantially better than either Virgin or Qantas and provide access to Star alliance partners, so I'd be seriously considering using Virgin (Singapore's partner - you can transfer point from Virgin to Singapore) and the above credit cards.

That said Qantas points are very handy for trips on Emirates - their availability in first can be good close to date of the flight. Good luck getting Qantas reward business / first seats back to the USA: virtually a waste of time.

As ever, you'll likely earn far more points using your credit cards wisely than sitting on aircraft: given that, you can afford to have a foot in both camps (Qantas and Virgin) and choose which airline to fly on as you go, whilst seizing whatever other opportunities present from either airline (bonus points for their respective online shopping malls, hotel bookings, Qantas gift card purchases just before christmas, and buying wine from Qantas Epiqure when offering substantial points bonuses, etc, etc).

Status on either airline is virtually irrelevant IF you generally fly business class.

There really isn't any significant difference between their domestic offerings

captain_starwood

Very, very interesting, Platy. Thanks for this thoughtful post. In short:

1) No difference between domestic product.
2) Credit card is biggest way for me to earn and actually the most important decision (I can wait a little longer on this since I've been using my US SPG and UA Chase Visa
3) You're in favor of either doing Citibank, Amex Platinum, or another card with a hefty bonus and the ability to transfer out to other programs.

Some dumb questions:
1) Is transfer from Citibank or Amex to Virgin or Singapore 1:1 or similar (no loss of point value?)

2) Is there a good mid-range card? In the US, I like to to pay $100 a year for a big bonus with perks, I haven't seen one like this in Australia.

3) What are rough business or first redemption rates like on Emirates using QF points? We are getting married next July in Europe and flying outbound/return in premium cabin with my wife would be great saving goal.

Thanks for all your help. If you're in Sydney in the next few months, PM and the first two shouts are mine.

leftistblue

Great thread. I've made the unfortunate decision to fall in love with an Australian, and need to find a job so I can move there.

Looks like I will be doing at least twice-yearly trips back and forth from the US and OZ, so was wondering if I should switch from AA to QF. Looks like I will stay with AA.

number_6

1. It varies by specific product, for example Amex has about 4 different rates based on the specific card you have. The good rates also have higher fees, expect to pay AUD 500 or more for a good card -- it isn't the US market!
2. Check HSBC and Citibank, they tend to have better deals, but it varies from month to month.
3. QFF cost for NYC-LHR costs 78k in F and 53k in J (one way). Not sure what routes US-Europe EK offers (used to be WAS-MXP I think) but point cost would be similar. So much more than other options plus there is a hefty co-pay. But good availability on an expensive award is more useful to me than poor dates/no availability on a cheaper award.

Platy

On your points:

1) Yes - try both and see which you personally prefer: folk here seem to get very attached to one or the other!
2) Yes - assuming a reasonable turnover of cash flow
3) yes - keep things flexible to access a greater range of reward opportunities and to bypass the more costly burn rates and fuel surcharges at will: current bonus on Citibank is 70,000 and Amex 100,000 (or possibly 120,000 see below).

On your questions:

1) Transfer rates:

• Amex Platinum transfers at 1:1 for most partners (except SPG is 2:1)
• Citibank VISA transfer at 2:1 for most partners, BUT, the earn rate on Prestige VISA is 2 per AUD on most spend and 5 per $ on non AUD transactions: the Signature VISA is1.5 per AUD earn with a cheaper annual fee...you'll need to do the maths! You can't transfer to Qantas on Citibank cards unless you lock into the one airline.

2) This is Australia not the USA! Card fees will be higher here than USA and there is a lot less choice. The lower cost cards tend to be locked to one airline. accept that you are going to have to pay more on the annual fee ($1200 on Amex Platinum, $700 on Citibank Prestige, $199 year 1 rising to $395 year 2 on Citibank Signature).

If price sensitive on the annual fee tend towards the Citibank Prestige.

An alternative is the David Jones Amex at only $99 annual fee: BUT there is a massive GOTCHA: the rewards program is diluted with points worth only half of the normal MR points and so the 30,000 point sign up is really only worth 15,000 points.

3) Redemption Australia to Europe:

Singapore - around 110,000 points each way in first class plus fuel surcharges
Qantas - around 192,000 points each way in first class plus fuel surcharges: more if stopover > 24 hours

So you can see Singapore offers much better value! CRUCIALLY, Singapore have two reward levels - if you can't get a regular award seat you can pay more points for almost guaranteed availability: their standard reward is then not much more than Qantas basic one anyway giving the Virgin Australia - Singapore - Citibank strategy a massive advantage if you end goal is premium Australia to Europe !!!

To avoid fuel surcharges you then need to consider other airlines such as Cathay Pacific - Asia Miles lies in value somewhere between the two above examples and is a transfer partner of the Amex., etc.

You need to transfer to Singapore KrisFlyer to have chance at first class and better inventory for business class rewards (they don't release so many seats to partner airlines like United and Avianca):not to mention ability to access rewards across Star Alliance carriers.

As a reasonable goal I'd target business class to Europe on Singapore for your eventual trip - around 75,000 points each one way and then seek out the routes with the brand new A350-900: for example Melbourne to Amsterdam or Dusseldorf. Then 190,000 of the 300,000 points needed are already secured by the credit card bonuses if you get both VISA and Amex. You only need to earn 110,000 points. If you fall short you can buy the shortfall from Amex. If you surpass the target you can decide whether to go first class instead of business class. Use that as your reference point. If better opportunities present themselves, you can make a relative choice. For example, if may be worth spending more points and less cash on fuel surcharges going on Cathay. You can choose which matters to you more - cash or points.


Other points:

There are a number of low cost carriers into Asia from Australia: thus if you pull up a little short on points you can take an airline such as SCOOT to Singapore thence your premium reward thereafter to Europe. By example, I regularly fly Cairns to Tokyo on Jetstar on cash fare to pick up a first class British Airways to London on rewards using Qantas, or AA, or BA Avios, etc.

Similarly you can fly cheap to Hong Kong on Hong Kong airlines now from Cairns or Gold Coast and pick up a Cathay Pacific Award (low fuel surcharges) from HKG into Europe.

If you decide to favour Qantas rather than Virgin Australia, as others have pointed out, the choice becomes one of whether you are mainly concerned with status (in which case quote your Qantas number and fly around the USA on AA first to boost your Qantas / Oneworld status) or points (in which case quote you AA number on your Qantas flights to maximise your earn / burn opportunities through AA onto OneWorld rewards). IF you aim to travel around Australia then book up the flights to AA: 20,000 AA points gets you Sydney to Perth saving you $2000 each way on business class: the Qantas burn rate is 36,000 points.


With Amex you can buy the points if short at AUD25 per 1,000 - very useful back up!

PM me for how to get the 120,000 bonus on Amex!

PM me with more specific questions so we don't overload this thread!

Platy

If your goal is status, then you can get to Qantas Gold or Platinum relatively easily by quoting your Qantas membership number for your AA flights, notably in business/first when you can find great airfares (these are often into the Caribbean and Central America: if you have time to go to Australia the long way round then go Washington-Caribbean-Hawaii on cheap AA business/first fares and thence on Jetstar Honolulu-Australia, noting you'll need 4 Qantas flights per year to qualify for status).

If points is your goal stick with AA and quote the AA membership number on your AA and Qantas flights...

...there's something about those Aussies...!

SHAAKQ

Since you have Plat with AA. I think you are much better accumulating AA then starting fresh with Qantas.