serfty

Don't disparage that extra two inches.

If your torso width is 17" then 2" inches represents 500% more available lateral space.

On the same theme, if your torso is 17½" then it's infinitely better.

(Then again, if you are 18" wide then we are getting irrational [i]. )

inpd

True, but if the people in PE are higher quality wouldn't you want to be closer to them? So there magnetic personality can be fully absorbed?

og

Their quality is not necessarily higher, just better behaved because they are under less stress from confinement.

inpd

So the Y people are stressed because they are 2 inches closer vertically and 7 inches closer horizontally? I've now travelled in the PE cabin twice and it's not exactly super spacious.

nux

Do you think those travelling in F are less stressed than those travelling in J since there are less people in the cabin and a bit more space per passenger? I do, and think it leads to a better travelling experience to travel F instead of J, and PE instead of Y.


You could also start a similar thread about (real/longhaul) First vs Business class and receive similar responses since in general the differences are similar between F vs J and PE vs Y - more space and better food but usually a similar type of seat.

On most carriers the percentage of extra space you get between J and F would be similar to Y and PE. Generally you still just get a larger flat bed and extra space in F compared to J, just as you still just get a larger reclining seat and extra space in PE compared to Y. PE has a smaller cabin leading to a calmer environment/better travelling experience, just as F does over J.


Since you think no-one actually pays for PE, do you think no-one pays for F over J?

Globaliser

Just so that anyone who's newer to this thread can see the background:-

serfty

I have no idea - I was not the one who referred to PAX 'quality'; I have stuck with measurable facts.

You have asked a question and been answered - you obviously have your own opinion and the answers haven't swayed you.

I have a work associate of HKG origin; he heads to Asia 3 or 4 time a year. He is 5'5" and thin - his wife is of similar build. He cannot really understand why anyone would pay for anything other than economy since they comfortably fit in a pair of seats. Those 2" mean nothing to him.

In any case, enjoy your travels.

Kremmen

That's how I see it. However, most of my international travel in the last few years has been on US Airways miles bought at $1100-$1800 per 100k. Given that that has made my return business class (110k miles) cost to the USA under $2000, obviously $3500 for PE would be inane.

Someone does. Certainly not me, but I'm glad they do, since this frees up some J space. My first time in QF long-haul F will be on my last US-booked flight. There was no space in J, so I booked F, costing an extra 15k miles (around $200).

inpd

Yep. You and I see it, but I'm not sure others do! That price difference could be used for an upgrade (with miles) to J or buying a lot of really nice food, wine etc that is way way better than what you get for PE.

edy4eva

The Australian market is almost always priced higher than other markets, and it has worked well for airlines. QF and VA exploit this to the fullest extent. Some see the pricing of PE/J/F is out of this world, but the vast majority of travellers are content paying whatever fare that is in each cabin. VA does not even offer discounted children J fares on the US routes.

Most importantly, it's a tight market in Australia -unlike in the US where some competitors/routes may be distinguished almost solely by the possibility to upgrade to a higher cabin for very few miles/dollars. That's a marketing tool almost US-exclusive (there are exceptions elswhere), which believe it or not makes up a tiny fraction of the world's air travel market.

In other words, what you're used to in the US does not necessarily apply elsewhere. And what has worked/is working for the vast majority of non-US airlines does not need to be perceived as weird or out of ordinary.

Now of course, I am not suggesting that savvy flyers who are after the best value do not exist. They do. And QF/VA are aware of this. It is my view that if QF/VA open the doors to things like SWU or immediately confirmed upgrades on their international routes, it will hit their revenue from premium cabins, and your wonderment -the question/title of this thread- may then be answered: very few.

But until that happens -if ever, the answer is a yes, most if not all do.

Annalisa12

I pay $ for F instead of J. I really only do that to experience their F cabin and once it's done, I'm happy to go back to J. Of course if there is a huge difference, such as an angled flat bed versus a suite/room then I'll choose F. I won't choose F for food, booze or IFE. For me, the difference in F and J is a lot when coming from Australia and flights are 7 hours and over and when you multiply that for 2 it does seem dumb to waste that money when you can use it towards a nice hotel. If I had 10 million dollars in the bank it would be a whole other story!!!

SuiteFlight

The old Australia Tax lol - very true edy4eva. Other international markets or cities can have a similar problem, thanks to airlines being the world's best price discriminators (upping the price to as much as the airlines think the local population will absorb, even if that opens the door to a simple reversing of the start and end points of a booking seeing a wide price differential), but Australia seems to regularly cop a price premium.

Yes, the traditional US air carriers are a bit unique in giving repeated and regular free upgrades on the majority of domestic flights to their top elites, or for just notional point/cash contributions. And it's questionable whether that practice will survive into the next decade. Already Delta is increasing the monetisation of it's Comfort+ seating and splitting it out as a seperate fare class (rather than just a subset of Economy). And where Delta leads, United and American have followed.

It's certainly the case here in Australia that airlines seek to maximise seat revenue - free upgrades or cheap ones are far and few between.

inpd

So I Flew QF17 yesterday in PE. Took a poll of 8 of us standing around the toilet which is a healthy subsample of the 30+ PE passengers. Of the eight, five of us volunteered we got comped the upgrade and three looked annoyed!

So I would say about 50% of us didn't pay.

Maybe its the wild variances in the departure times that are stopping people not paying for the premium cabin. It's all well to have a nice seat, food etc. but in the end if you can't get from point A to point B on time then who cares? Given Sydney is a pain to transfer at (as is LAX to a lesser extend) arrival time trumps comfort.

eminere

This.

I see a dead horse being flogged.

BadgerBoi

to be honest, if a random passenger asks me how I paid for my ticket while I'm hanging around waiting to use the loo I'd either tell him to mind his own business or give him the wrong answer - eg won it for free in a raffle at work. If the other four who claimed to have been comped were Aussies I suspect that you fell for a good old fashioned leg-pull.

I'm astonished that Qantas would comp that many upgrades, they prefer to fly with premium seats empty than to give them away for no good reason.