cove

I will give them a treat with some Australian Taxation Office payments this month.

aster

Sorry, you are right, it's $99 if you choose QF miles as rewards. Luckily supplementary cards are at least free.

I just noticed that you can also choose to convert to Singapore Airlines miles (or AsiaMiles) without paying the $99 fee. Unfortunately the ratio is very low at 1 mile per $1.6 spend (0.625 miles/$).

Here in Singapore a lot of us have perfected the miles game (I run the whole CC master thread in the SQ section of this site) and if you know what you're doing you can set yourself up so that most monthly spend will be at 4 miles/$. There are a lot of neat tricks and tips that work here due to the myriad of card schemes and bonuses.

Plus over here we always get fee-waivers on all cards bar none, but we do have to pay the conversion fee from points to miles (some banks have a per-conversion fee, others have a flat annual fee for unlimited transfers). Not sure how this works in Australia and whether you have to manually do these transfers, whether you get miles automatically like x days after each transaction or lump-sum per month, etc.?

Also, a lot of people have been critical of QFF but I'm also not sure where things stand with QF and their tie-up with EK, how the respective FFPs treat their members (maybe QF fliers are now better off with EK's FFP or the other way around?). In Singapore with the exception of Citi you are primarily stuck with collecting KrisFlyer miles (or AsiaMiles), but I see that over in Australia they're also giving people another option by offering a card in conjunction with EK.

Dave Noble

With normal American Express cards, membership rewards points can be earned which can be filtered to a myriad of schemes

For direct earning, there are less options such as earings to Virgin, Emirates and Qantas

With the American Express Platinum Charge card, the membership rewards programme also allows transfer to Qantas should it be so desired

Supersonic Swinger

True, although that's with the fee free card. If you select QFF and pay $99 per annum, based on the base value of each QFF point (roughly 0.78 cents, being the cash equivalent when you use Points + Pay or the online store) you'd need to spend up to over $12,000 just to get your annual fee back.

There aren't any conversion fees on manual transfers in Australia like there are in Singapore.

Other than the Amex Platinum and a couple of corporate cards however, all QFF cards are direct sweep every month so that Qantas has monthly cash flow from your spend, and buys them time to think of new devaluations *cough* enhancements while you try accumulating enough for a decent award.

aster

Good point about how much you need to spend just to cover the annual fee. Then again a lot of people here (or should I say a lot more people than you will see on the SQ subforum) are mentioning insurance as a major perk of these cards. Is it that comprehensive for foreign travel compared to the cards we have in Singapore? The ones in SIN mainly seem good in a "worst case" scenario (experiencing more take-offs than landings), and a bit on the wacky side such as when someone else decides to alter the flightplan in a not so legal way... in which case you would be compensated for every hour of this highly undesirable experience (some joke rate). Where do Australian CCs stand on the overseas medical charges side?

I take it there is no way to get Avios from local CCs? Also, more or less what kind of "value" ratio are we looking at between Avios and QF points? I'm still a bit lost when it comes to OW status and where to best collect points if you fly carrier X and Y, but overall a HUGE upside from what I can see compared to every other FFP I've looked at is the ease with which you can transfer/share miles with family.

Online, instant, fee-free? Wow. With AY you can only do it over the phone and there is a fee, with BA they have a membership scheme but when you spend it will use up the miles proportionately, LH has a well-hidden family membership scheme only for residents of the Middle East, SQ does not allow any transfers and has no family membership program, etc. A lot of these FFPs might seem good but end up being useless with miles scattered amongst various persons (and often expiring without any way of using them).

Kremmen

The vast majority are useless. There are a few that have proper insurance, but they have high annual fees and generally don't cover frequent flyer award tickets.

If you have any of the Amex membership rewards cards (esp. the Platinum Edge which gives you a free Virgin return flight every year), you can transfer to SPG and then transfer SPG to Avios.

As for value, here's my take on it. MEL-PER in business return is:
US: 30k + ~$70
AA: 35k + ~$25
BA: 40k + ~$40
QF: 72k + ~$70

BA is often better for short flights than AA. AA is much better for long flights, when BA charges massive surcharges like QF. (AS is often better than all of the above!)

Even if you are earning .625 pts/$ (via Amex/SPG transfer), anything is better than QF itself. (I'm posting from the MEL QP, about to fly to PER on AA miles.)

Supersonic Swinger

Even if you were to get the lowest value out of them using the cash equivalent value of the points:

- 1 QFF point = roughly 0.78 cents using Points + Pay option only for flights booked on the QF website
- 1 Amex MR point = 1.00 cents using to pay for flights / hotels on several travel website.

Credit card spend is too valuable to have it directed to QFF points.

Kremmen

One other consideration is that if you do really want QF points, Amex has been getting better. Merchant fees are improving and Amex works through PayPal.

The Qantas American Express Discovery Card has zero annual fee. I can put 80% of my expenditure on Amex. The Visa or Mastercard alternative has to give my a decent return on the remaining 20%. If you value QF pts at 1c, then unless I were to spend $70,000/year by credit card, it's simply not worth it. Better value and much simpler to use Amex when possible and just use a zero-fee/zero-points card for the places that don't take Amex.

A few years ago, the Woolies card was worth it for sign-up bonus and value for the non-Amex purchases. Now, they are trying to milk it when the value isn't there. I'll be cancelling mine.

RichardMEL

Small comment on insurance. I've made a few claims over the years with the included insurance on a Citi and HSBC cards, both underwritten by (well provided by) Zurich. In one case they paid out a medical claim which turns out was actually due to a pre-existing condition (but the idiot ER docs in the US didn't know this, despite a clear medical history being given). Anyway they paid a reasonable sum out no questions asked apart from the paperwork. Another claim on a cancelled flight requiring a full-Y walk up fare purchase was also paid out accordingly and I had another one that I forget the details of, but have had no hassles with it. I'd certainly think the "included" travel insurance would be on part with the regular insurance you might purchase from CoverMore or STA or whatever provider out there.

Of course if I was going to africa or some other place it ma be more difficult, but in the US, europe etc, I've had no issue.

just my 2 cents.

aster

I think it all boils down to what alternatives we have in diverting miles elsewhere. If not QFF... then where would you send your miles?

Would I be correct in assuming that earning miles via Amex pretty much opens up the floodgates to most FFPs via Starwood? Even if so, are there any major FFPs with poor transfer rates which would rule the Starwood route out of the question?

Another issue is pooling miles - here you might as well forget about SQ. And I believe EK is no better. In this aspect QF stands out like a shining star, with BAEC a close second. For some this might bear no meaning of course, but in my case - with two kids - pooling those miles into one pot is a major selling point.

Looking at alternatives in terms of where to direct your CC miles, I take it the two main factors to consider are a) the eventual burn rate -and- B) award availability. Here it seems that BAEC has a slight edge with the former (though they only allow Y-to-C upgrades from flex fares, but at least outright redemptions are slightly cheaper), but availability is a gray zone that has many calling this FFP basically "useless." Whereas they might be decent on trans-Atlantic routes, redemptions between SIN and LHR are a nightmare (apart from last-minute ones).

Where would you recommend shifting miles to from CC spend?

P.S. Do a lot of QF-metal fliers still choose BAEC over QFF, even if they never fly on BA?

Dave Noble

Within OneWorld, US Airways and AA are great options

Yes, 40,000 AMEX points becomes 25,000 US or AA points rather tnan 40k to 40K for Amex to Qantas , however redemption costs for longhaul premium travel are so much better

e.g.

SYD-LHR r/t in business or 1st class (excluding real taxes )

Using Qantas points would be 256k or 384k plus $1080
Using AA points would be 120k or 160k
Using US points would be 120k or 150k + $50

SYD-SIN r/t

Using Qantas : 120k plus $480
Using AA : 70k
Using US : 90k plus $50


I just booked a trip for SYD-KUL-MNL , MNL-HKG, HKG-KUL-SYD in business class using US points for 90k plus $50 plus taxes

Using Qantas points would have been 196k plus $497 plus taxes. ( the actual routing being via KUL was simply due to availability not a desire to take a long route )

Another trip I booked to USA and Europe in 1st class cost me 140k miles vs 420k plus $1551 which Qantas would have charged

imo, even with the 62.5% transfer rate from AMEX - the FF programme, the lower redemption costs and lack of surcharges makes it great


There are situations where Qantas points can be better, mainly ime on short journeys due to the zonal nature of the 2 USA based schemes

e.g. SYD-MEL is 8k in economy vs 10k AA points or 16k vs 17.5 k in business
for purely domestic USA travel, AA is 12.5k one way economy whereas for travel no more than 1200 miles Qantas is 12k economy For 1st class travel however , AA is 25k vs 36k Qantas

aster

Many thanks, this whole AA/US approach seems to be a real game-changer here. ^

How would you rate shifting to those FFPs from the following angles:

1. Ease of getting redemptions in biz/1st on QF/BA using those FFPs
2. Possibility of making OW redemptions online
3. Pooling miles/household sharing/transferring
4. Status - does it make sense crediting QF or alliance flights to AA/US to gain status - or are we simply looking at those FFPs as a way to divert CC miles

Dave Noble

(1) Exactly the same as with Qantas points.
(2) With AA can book some online. Having to make a phone call to book is not much of an issue imo. You can check availability online and then just make a call to book. The trip to Asia that I booked yesterday for 90k did involve 30 minutes on a phone call on skype that cost me nothing to make, but I'd rather make a phone call and pay 90k rather than use 196k points plus $470 and be able to book online
(3) Generally not good value. It is easy to transfer AMEX points to other accounts as long as you both have Starwood accounts. Can transfer to Starwood, then you can transfer starwood points to someone at same address as you for free and then transfer to their FF account.
(4) This depends on travel you are doimg. If you can attain status in AA or US, I would say it is well worth doing that too generally.

For (4) what is you general travel for the year?

If you are thinking of switching and are eligible for an American Express Platinum Charge card, then there is an 80,000 Membership rewards bonus on at the moment which is a nice 50k AA or US points ( 30k US will give a business class return trip to anywhere in AU/NZ ). The value of the joining points is not much difference to the cost of the card ($1200) and does give free night hotel at an Accor Hotel plus with free associated credit card, a free return flight within Australia or AU-NZ , plus grants access to Virgin Lounges when travelling Virgin

Supersonic Swinger

Personally, I don't send them anywhere, I warehouse them in places like Amex MR, SPG, Citi and then transfer as required and keep an eye on a number of programs to take advantage of particular opportunities. Sending them automatically to a program (which Qantas effectively forces you to do) just invites the program to devalue them while you build them up.

Virgin's family pooling allows you to pool all points and status credits into one account under certain conditions, which would have you rocketing up the status ranks - http://www.velocityfrequentflyer.com...fits/index.htm. However I'm not sure what their international J award availability is like.

Some do, although you'd need a non-Australian address, BAEC isn't available to those with Australian mailing addresses.

Agree, there's always the risk they will start to take a Delta or United approach to their program, including making partner redemptions harder but they are worth it at the moment. As a no status flier, I have an upcoming SYD-LHR in F on QF booked throught the AA website for 80,000 plus about $200 in fees and taxes. QF would have been 192,000 plus over $1,000 in fees and taxes, and they didn't even show availability on their own metal, yet AA did.

I have accounts with both to credit:

To QF - cheap domestic QF fares and discounted economy CX fares which wouldn't credit to AA, as with codeshares on EK metal
To AA - credit flights on OW partners which earn better rates on AA than QF (such as BA discounted economy, MH or QR)

In the last day or two, the associated card (Platinum Reserve) has been removed from the website and they are not taking applications for it anymore, and it is no longer listed as an associated card of the Platinum charge card - https://www.americanexpress.com/au/c...platinum-card/

Dave Noble

Indeed they might change; of course leaving them in AMEX leaves options for other schemes too such as a Star airline

I cannot see any value in sending CC points to the trash can that is QFF though; it is a rare case where I would want to redeem on QF, but if I need to , I can always transfer some AMEX points across


Interesting; hadn't realised.