Horrible deportation after secondary inspection
May 10, 2016, 1:06 pm
#31
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You say she came from Japan but was sent back to "her country." Pardon my suspicions, but
--Is she a citizen of Japan traveling with a valid Japanese passport?
--Is she a resident of Japan?
--What is her job, if any, in her country of residence?
--What is the nature of your relationship with this person who knows zero English? I consider picking someone up at LAX to be closer to boyfriend/husband duty than casual friendship.
--Is she a citizen of Japan traveling with a valid Japanese passport?
--Is she a resident of Japan?
--What is her job, if any, in her country of residence?
--What is the nature of your relationship with this person who knows zero English? I consider picking someone up at LAX to be closer to boyfriend/husband duty than casual friendship.
-Yes
- Salon
- I am her close friend. We do like each others. But, we both know we are friends. Still early in that kind of relationship.
My reaction too. Salon work (not sure what she does in the salon) could be a nail salon, hair salon, spa, massage "salon", tea salon, hostess salon, karaoke salon, etc. Unless she's a high end senior hair stylist, it's unlikely that she earns enough money to obviously be able to buy two TPAC RT tickets in short succession. It also could look a little strange for a salon employee to have so much vacation time for these trips.
She lives with her parents and her parents also give her money. So, what's wrong having allowance? Asian parents typically are supportive toward their children in terms of finances. I dont see anything wrong. but i understood in western culture, like the CBP officers live in, they might think differently.
Last edited by TWA884; Mar 27, 2019 at 11:31 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member
May 10, 2016, 1:15 pm
#32
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hair/cosmetic salon. Not that kind of salon.
She lives with her parents and her parents also give her money. So, what's wrong having allowance? Asian parents typically are supportive toward their children in terms of finances. I dont see anything wrong. but i understood in western culture, like the CBP officers live in, they might think differently.
She lives with her parents and her parents also give her money. So, what's wrong having allowance? Asian parents typically are supportive toward their children in terms of finances. I dont see anything wrong. but i understood in western culture, like the CBP officers live in, they might think differently.
She works in a low-paid field. (which might or might not be suspicious to the officer - I suppose the first)
She takes a second TPAC flight within a few weeks.
She probably couldn't communicate properly enough to explain that she has enough money (and show proof of it), that her travel plans are like this and that (hotel bookings, rental cars/train ticket reservations etc.) and all that like that WE probably could give easily.
A single, young, female traveller, working in a low-paid field, on a second oversea trip within weeks, with very limited language abilities - she does have my sympathy, but I guess such case could very well ring some bells. And missing language skills (they don't provide a translator?) make things worse..
May 10, 2016, 1:15 pm
#33
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It's quite ordinary -- even rather common -- for economically self-sufficient adult Asians to reside with their working adult parents unless and until they get married. It's not even that rare for the wealthier amongst such group of Asians -- I'm even talking of those whose family's have net worths in the tens of millions of USD or even much, much higher -- to supplement their adult children's own income with additional money/allowances. Not that bizarre. That they live rent-free at home, gives them much more disposable income -- no wonder that the single, "stay-with-parents", working adult children are such an important market for luxury goods retailers. [This lack of understanding about the circumstances can create issues when dealing with CBP or even when dealing with US State Department authorities for visas or other matters.]
I know some people working in hair salons in some parts of Asia whose income exceeds that which would be made by Swedish medical doctors of the same or even much higher age.
Just because someone works in a field considered low income and/or low status in the US doesn't mean that everyone with such affiliation fits the stereotype bought by CBP.
Unfortunately, CBP doesn't do so well in inter-cultural understandings or dealing with the proverbial "exceptions". In many cases in the US, this CBP limitation results in being denied entry where a more informed person would arrive at a different conclusion about the very same set of circumstances.
If she was coming for training/education in the US, then she should have gotten the appropriate visa.
I know a number of people who repeatedly used the US VWP to enter the US and even managed to enroll in classes in the US. Eventually some of them got caught by CBP on attempted re-entry to the US. They would then routinely be sent to go back to point of origin from which they would then apply for a student visa. Most got the student visa without issue, some even got them fast enough to make it back to the US within a day or two. Post-9/11, it doesn't go as easy and fast, but it still quite routinely works out just fine for VWP countries' citizens who are denied admission to the US but then return with the appropriate visa.
I would suggest that the OP's acquaintance seek an appropriate visa at the US consulate/embassy most convenient to her and then go from there -- if still interested in visiting the US.
I know some people working in hair salons in some parts of Asia whose income exceeds that which would be made by Swedish medical doctors of the same or even much higher age.
Just because someone works in a field considered low income and/or low status in the US doesn't mean that everyone with such affiliation fits the stereotype bought by CBP.
Unfortunately, CBP doesn't do so well in inter-cultural understandings or dealing with the proverbial "exceptions". In many cases in the US, this CBP limitation results in being denied entry where a more informed person would arrive at a different conclusion about the very same set of circumstances.
After she got back to Japan today, she mentioned the officer advised her to get student visa next time, but future admission will be difficult.
But, she got intimidated, her iphone got checked and total privacy invasion and bags examined.
Imagine one of those FBI interview room and you are left sitting there for 14 hours with no blanket nothing.
She paid the ticket herself.
She works in salon in japan
But, she got intimidated, her iphone got checked and total privacy invasion and bags examined.
Imagine one of those FBI interview room and you are left sitting there for 14 hours with no blanket nothing.
She paid the ticket herself.
She works in salon in japan
I know a number of people who repeatedly used the US VWP to enter the US and even managed to enroll in classes in the US. Eventually some of them got caught by CBP on attempted re-entry to the US. They would then routinely be sent to go back to point of origin from which they would then apply for a student visa. Most got the student visa without issue, some even got them fast enough to make it back to the US within a day or two. Post-9/11, it doesn't go as easy and fast, but it still quite routinely works out just fine for VWP countries' citizens who are denied admission to the US but then return with the appropriate visa.
I would suggest that the OP's acquaintance seek an appropriate visa at the US consulate/embassy most convenient to her and then go from there -- if still interested in visiting the US.
Last edited by GUWonder; May 10, 2016 at 1:26 pm
May 10, 2016, 6:44 pm
#34
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OP -Did she tell the CBP officer that she was visiting the US to study? I can't think of any other reason why a student visa would come up?
I think it's possible she wasn't "flagged" at all, it might have just been the officer asked "Purpose of your trip" and she said "Study hairdressing" and he said "Where's your student visa?"
Also, if her iPhone was searched it's because she had no password or she gave them the password. She didn't have to give the password, she could have refused, though for a non-citizen that probably virtually guarantees denial of entry.
For a US citizen, if CBP asks for your phone password, you answer should always be "No" or "I'll input the password if you show me a court order requiring me to do that."
I think it's possible she wasn't "flagged" at all, it might have just been the officer asked "Purpose of your trip" and she said "Study hairdressing" and he said "Where's your student visa?"
Also, if her iPhone was searched it's because she had no password or she gave them the password. She didn't have to give the password, she could have refused, though for a non-citizen that probably virtually guarantees denial of entry.
For a US citizen, if CBP asks for your phone password, you answer should always be "No" or "I'll input the password if you show me a court order requiring me to do that."
May 10, 2016, 9:47 pm
#35
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My reaction too. Salon work (not sure what she does in the salon) could be a nail salon, hair salon, spa, massage "salon", tea salon, hostess salon, karaoke salon, etc. Unless she's a high end senior hair stylist, it's unlikely that she earns enough money to obviously be able to buy two TPAC RT tickets in short succession. It also could look a little strange for a salon employee to have so much vacation time for these trips.
May 11, 2016, 12:27 am
#37
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,455
I don't think that question is anyhow important for the question why her entry was denied?
In short: I think we've gattered enough information here - this looks very much like someone was denied entry when too many details were pointing as something fishy going on, and she couldn't properly explain it (due to language) - I think when foreigners travel to the US without English skills, they REALLY need to have everything they've planned printed out to show as proof, ie "stay in Vegas 3 days, here is the hotel reservation, then take domestic flight to Detroit, hotel reservation here, see ruins for 2 days, then take train to New York, ticket reservation here, stay in NYC for 5 days at Hotel X (reservation here), then fly back to here, stay another 2 days before me return flight.
Here is my credit card statement - as you can see I've 500.000 Yen allowance, ie 5000$ - also my hotel bookings are prepaid, and the transport all paid already. And my monthly income is 300.000 Yen, which is about 3000$. I earn more in my field than I would earn in the US doing the same job (maybe don't say that so direct, but they should get the point unless they're REALLY dumb)
Yes, it might be annoying to show them "personal information", maybe including how much you earn per month (this is an absolute no-go in Europe, for example, but I know that Asians in general are more open to display how much they earn), but the more information you can provide showing them that you're simply a tourist, and definitely don't want to stay in the US for work/study, the more likely it is that their "decision" will be that you're allowed to enter.
In short: I think we've gattered enough information here - this looks very much like someone was denied entry when too many details were pointing as something fishy going on, and she couldn't properly explain it (due to language) - I think when foreigners travel to the US without English skills, they REALLY need to have everything they've planned printed out to show as proof, ie "stay in Vegas 3 days, here is the hotel reservation, then take domestic flight to Detroit, hotel reservation here, see ruins for 2 days, then take train to New York, ticket reservation here, stay in NYC for 5 days at Hotel X (reservation here), then fly back to here, stay another 2 days before me return flight.
Here is my credit card statement - as you can see I've 500.000 Yen allowance, ie 5000$ - also my hotel bookings are prepaid, and the transport all paid already. And my monthly income is 300.000 Yen, which is about 3000$. I earn more in my field than I would earn in the US doing the same job (maybe don't say that so direct, but they should get the point unless they're REALLY dumb)
Yes, it might be annoying to show them "personal information", maybe including how much you earn per month (this is an absolute no-go in Europe, for example, but I know that Asians in general are more open to display how much they earn), but the more information you can provide showing them that you're simply a tourist, and definitely don't want to stay in the US for work/study, the more likely it is that their "decision" will be that you're allowed to enter.
May 11, 2016, 12:50 am
#38
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It's a rather frequent and important question at US and UK POEs when young adult females of rather limited financial means come alone to the US or UK and claim to be staying with a possibly romantic friend whom they have only met online. It's one of the most common reasons I see young American and Canadian women having problems at UK POEs.
May 11, 2016, 12:55 am
#39
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She must have said one of the magic words "study, school, class" or something along those lines. Getting the boot with the comment to basically come back with a student visa is a specific reaction to something she said or implied.
As for the 14 hours in the airport, it happens all the time, all over the world. A friend of mine flew from the US to Sao Paulo only to realize that his residency visa expired the day before. After a 10 hour flight, he got to spend 12 hours in the terminal waiting on the return flight. Being denied entry to the US is tough because we don't have international terminals with immigration checks outside of it. There's literally no place to put someone who's been denied except in a room. We don't have transit lounges or anything of the sort.
As for the 14 hours in the airport, it happens all the time, all over the world. A friend of mine flew from the US to Sao Paulo only to realize that his residency visa expired the day before. After a 10 hour flight, he got to spend 12 hours in the terminal waiting on the return flight. Being denied entry to the US is tough because we don't have international terminals with immigration checks outside of it. There's literally no place to put someone who's been denied except in a room. We don't have transit lounges or anything of the sort.
May 11, 2016, 1:37 am
#40
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,455
It's a rather frequent and important question at US and UK POEs when young adult females of rather limited financial means come alone to the US or UK and claim to be staying with a possibly romantic friend whom they have only met online. It's one of the most common reasons I see young American and Canadian women having problems at UK POEs.
Flying to meet someone (and/or do other activities) in the US you've met online before is perfectly allowed (why should it not?), as long as you're not financially dependant on that person - which clearly doesn't seems to be the case here. But that's possible one of the "fears" the immigration officer had.
In "old times", one could probably show traveller checks worth thousands of dollars or simply straight out cash to "prove" you're bringing your own cash and paying for yourself. With credit cards, it's not that easy anymore. That's why I suggest bringing a credit card statement, bank account (even though in the case of Japan, that might not help much, as I doubt they would understand the meaning - having a language relatively similar to English certainly helps when showing such documents, as the "understanding" would be easier - probably would need the bank to get her a bank account printout in English) or other documents proving you can pay your expenses yourself.
In short, if everyone would play along the law, the average, regular traveller having no bad intentions would get an easier travel everywhere in the world. Unfortunately, some people want to "abuse" travel rules and therefore, checks are in position. And if your travel is "out of ordinary", you might get a secondary because of that.
I've managed to get a "secondary" (nothing really bad, just extra questions) at SIN myself when I travelled there 8 times in 10 weeks on tourism from Europe - showing them how much I paid for the ticket made them laugh and got me a "sorry, and welcome back" from them.
If I travel to Spain for a week of beach holidays, I won't be prepared for any kind of secondary.
If I travel to South Korea via Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong and Vladivostok, I almost expect that I'll be screened a bit more carefully.
In the case of the Japanese woman denied entry to the US, in hindsight it was quiet clear there might be more questions about her visit, and she should have been better prepared (with printouts, explanation, anything she could give even when not being an fluent speaker in English) to avoid being denied.
May 11, 2016, 1:59 am
#41
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,345
I've managed to get a "secondary" (nothing really bad, just extra questions) at SIN myself when I travelled there 8 times in 10 weeks on tourism from Europe - showing them how much I paid for the ticket made them laugh and got me a "sorry, and welcome back" from them.
May 11, 2016, 2:29 am
#42
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,338
I imagine most posters here are US citizens?
If so I'll just point out that while the ESTA (Visa Waiver) available to many of us foreigners is a very handy thing... compared to applying for a visa... there are some important aspects to ones application for one of them.
As part of the application process one must acknowledge/agree that the final decision on whether admittance to the USA will be granted lies with the immigration officials at the Port of Entry... and that one waives any rights to appeal their decision.
An ESTA will NOT be issued without the applicant ticking those boxes... (electronically of course).
There is little the OP can do... his friend could NOT have obtained an ESTA without agreeing to the conditions.
I can't imagine a US Senator making much difference.....
Of course for the VAST majority there is no problem... I have entered the US twice in 3 DAYS under the Visa Waiver program..with only a few extra questions... of course I am older, male and speak English (of a sort...) and have many commitments at home I can point to in any interview by CBP....
If so I'll just point out that while the ESTA (Visa Waiver) available to many of us foreigners is a very handy thing... compared to applying for a visa... there are some important aspects to ones application for one of them.
As part of the application process one must acknowledge/agree that the final decision on whether admittance to the USA will be granted lies with the immigration officials at the Port of Entry... and that one waives any rights to appeal their decision.
An ESTA will NOT be issued without the applicant ticking those boxes... (electronically of course).
There is little the OP can do... his friend could NOT have obtained an ESTA without agreeing to the conditions.
I can't imagine a US Senator making much difference.....
Of course for the VAST majority there is no problem... I have entered the US twice in 3 DAYS under the Visa Waiver program..with only a few extra questions... of course I am older, male and speak English (of a sort...) and have many commitments at home I can point to in any interview by CBP....
May 11, 2016, 3:52 am
#44
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CBP at LAX has some Japanese-speaking CBP personnel; and it otherwise also has access to translation facilities. But quite often, people with very limited English skills will end up not using a person fluent in their native tongue. Also, just because a translator is involved at some point in the CBP-passenger exchange doesn't mean that the translation will make things any better for the person seeking entry into the US even if a more proper understanding of the situation would actually make the visitor admissible to the US.
I've done a lot of very convoluted routings and some very rapid re-entries/re-exits/repeats to/from/via places where/when I have/had no fundamental legal right to enter. And yet I've almost never had an issue with immigration secondary and can count on one hand how many times I've been sent to an immigration secondary.
From my perspective as a traveler and otherwise, it's more likely that the more ordinary, average traveler or infrequent international traveler gets flagged way more often for immigration secondary than someone like me with mega-passport use and the kind of extreme patterns of travel that make up my international travel history.
As a matter of observance at embassies/consulates, it's clear to me that having a more extensive and more frequent travel history in passports most commonly facilitates entry into foreign OECD lands -- whether that means using a visa waiver facility or whether that means applying for a visa. In other words, if someone has been denied entry into a country, best to get that passport (or another passport) and get it some good use and a bunch more stamps/visas prior to visiting the US and/or applying for a US visa.
In short, if everyone would play along the law, the average, regular traveller having no bad intentions would get an easier travel everywhere in the world. Unfortunately, some people want to "abuse" travel rules and therefore, checks are in position. And if your travel is "out of ordinary", you might get a secondary because of that.
I've managed to get a "secondary" (nothing really bad, just extra questions) at SIN myself when I travelled there 8 times in 10 weeks on tourism from Europe - showing them how much I paid for the ticket made them laugh and got me a "sorry, and welcome back" from them.
If I travel to Spain for a week of beach holidays, I won't be prepared for any kind of secondary.
If I travel to South Korea via Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong and Vladivostok, I almost expect that I'll be screened a bit more carefully.
In the case of the Japanese woman denied entry to the US, in hindsight it was quiet clear there might be more questions about her visit, and she should have been better prepared (with printouts, explanation, anything she could give even when not being an fluent speaker in English) to avoid being denied.
I've managed to get a "secondary" (nothing really bad, just extra questions) at SIN myself when I travelled there 8 times in 10 weeks on tourism from Europe - showing them how much I paid for the ticket made them laugh and got me a "sorry, and welcome back" from them.
If I travel to Spain for a week of beach holidays, I won't be prepared for any kind of secondary.
If I travel to South Korea via Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong and Vladivostok, I almost expect that I'll be screened a bit more carefully.
In the case of the Japanese woman denied entry to the US, in hindsight it was quiet clear there might be more questions about her visit, and she should have been better prepared (with printouts, explanation, anything she could give even when not being an fluent speaker in English) to avoid being denied.
From my perspective as a traveler and otherwise, it's more likely that the more ordinary, average traveler or infrequent international traveler gets flagged way more often for immigration secondary than someone like me with mega-passport use and the kind of extreme patterns of travel that make up my international travel history.
As a matter of observance at embassies/consulates, it's clear to me that having a more extensive and more frequent travel history in passports most commonly facilitates entry into foreign OECD lands -- whether that means using a visa waiver facility or whether that means applying for a visa. In other words, if someone has been denied entry into a country, best to get that passport (or another passport) and get it some good use and a bunch more stamps/visas prior to visiting the US and/or applying for a US visa.
Last edited by GUWonder; May 11, 2016 at 4:02 am
May 11, 2016, 4:00 am
#45
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I think when foreigners travel to the US without English skills, they REALLY need to have everything they've planned printed out to show as proof, ie "stay in Vegas 3 days, here is the hotel reservation, then take domestic flight to Detroit, hotel reservation here, see ruins for 2 days, then take train to New York...
