realjd

Last spring when I flew to LHR on DL, the flight to London they made no announcements and left the curtains open, but on the flight back to ATL they closed the curtains and made an announcement about Homeland Security requiring passengers stay in their ticketed cabin on flights to the US. There was even a little sign on the curtain stating the same thing.

sbedelman

Wow. If anyone happens to be on a flight with a sign like that perhaps you could take a picture. I'm sure my contact at TSA would be most interested in that.

N965VJ

Those are known as Operations Specifications, and are a de facto FAA regulation.

sbedelman

Do you know if they are published publicly and if so if they might be available online?

As I mentioned my contact at DHS said he searched all the databases he had including those of the FAA and didn't find anything but he might have not known to search these.

KLflyerRalph

What's current regulation for US-bound flights.

Spiff

Stupid directive still in force.

Mats

I just asked a flight attendant friend about this. They were all told that it's the law on any inbound international flight to the US. His understanding was that it only applied to the most forward cabin (i.e. closest to the flight deck.)

I have always heard it on every US airline flying to the US, and I have seen the enforcement be exceptionally harsh and rapid.

United has made it consistent on all flights with their announcement about remaining in the cabin in which you are seated, "and we thank you for respecting this arrangement." They always say that "it is United's policy," and do not cite a law. Fair enough, let it be United's policy. I'll hear this announcement on my next domestic flight (in a couple of hours.)

I have never heard it on a foreign carrier, including Air Canada.

I'm not entirely against the policy in terms of keeping foot traffic reduction. But there are snags: when families are separated, they should be able to see one another on long flights. Likewise, sometimes carts, aircraft configuration, or broken equipment mean that passengers in an aft cabin should be allowed to go to a forward cabin and vice versa.

The "no congregating in aisles and near lavatories" is the one that upsets me. My stepmother, having grown up in a dictatorship, finds this offensive. It is the exact language used by the repressive government when she was a teenager and young adult. "Why did I move to the United States?" she asks. I have never seen this rule enforced, and it has an unduly totalitarian tone. I think that the airlines could easily "break up a crowd" without announcing this "policy."

If these rules were actually institutionalized or legal requirements, why aren't they in the safety videos?

Furthermore, most passengers are unfamiliar with the "lavatory occupied" sign, so they just get up, unaware if the lavatories are in use. I can't blame them. That sign isn't always conspicuous.

The worst are the overzealous ad-lib security announcements. I've heard pilots say things to the effect of "If you see something, say something." Oh please. Passengers have long wised up to that one. It made it sound like the pilot was loading his gun, preparing for a fight.

Tel Aviv also has a "30-minute rule," which I have seen enforced by United and Delta after about 2007, but not by El Al. I've never seen it enforced (nobody is going to divert to Damascus). I always think they should say who came up with the idea. Is it Israeli law (like the additional gate screening for US to Israel flights?) Is it airline policy? Or is it of apocryphal origin?

jspira

Could you provide further details on the enforcement?

Mats

Yes, I watched a grey-haired woman come to the forward cabin on a United 777 from CDG to EWR. She was clearly going to talk to a family member. Two flight attendants came rushing out of the front galley and escorted her back to the "B" cabin. They scolded her in the process... it was a bewildering display of paranoia.

KLflyerRalph

I suspect this 'rule' is franticly enforced on US carriers while European seem more relaxed about it.

jspira

The policy under discussion not withstanding, isn't there almost always a "sanctity of first class" rule in effect in terms of non first-class passengers "visiting"?

CDKing

Last year, i went to use the rear J lav. Someone in Y tried to rush in before me. FA told him, he had to use one of the coach lavs. The passenger argued that it was not a rule and would not turn back. FA ended up body blocking him (FA was a big guy) and forced him away from the lav. Didn't push him but due to his size the passenger had no choice but to move back.

What was really odd was after i exited the lav i noticed the FA brough the guy up front of J to speak with the purser. Not sure why the purser didnt go back to Y if it was such an issue with the guy coming into J.

Spiff

Unfortunately even non-US carriers announce this stupid "rule". Some of them are at least ok with premium class passengers visiting the lower cabin(s).

flitcraft

Two weeks ago, I flew from LHR to SEA on BA; I was in J, husband in Y. (I was flying on business...) I need a cane to walk and even then it is difficult right now due to broken ankle surgery. Unfortunately, somehow my pain meds ended up in my husband's carry-on where I couldn't get them. I was aware of the "stay in your cabin" rule so I asked one of the FA's if she could get my meds for me.

To my surprise, about ten minutes later my husband arrived at my seat, meds in hand. We chatted a minute or so, then he went back to steerage.

So, at least occasionally, common sense can override the rule.

sbedelman

As DHS has previously stated there is no such nor has there ever been any such government regulation. Anyone who states otherwise is both wrong and going to incur the ire of the DHS.

If you have such an experience you might consider taking the particulars and filing a complaint with both the airline and he DHS Ombudsman. The latter tells me they will take the matter extremely seriously as they are not pleasantly disposed to airlines quoting rules that do not in fact exist.

Of course the airline is free, within limits, to make their own rules. What they can't do is represent those as government regulations.