Kigali

I think we just have to recognize that, however much we would like for it to be otherwise, freedom is not a universal value, and some societies have not evolved to the point where they can handle freedom. Maybe one day the United States will develop to the point where its citizens will enjoy the freedoms that citizens of other countries take for granted. But look how long it took those other countries to evolve to this point; you can't expect a backward primitive country to join the modern world overnight.

jbart74

Wow! If I respond how I'd like to I'll just get suspended. So I'll just leave it at "Wow!"

JB

Kigali

Sorry if I hit a sore spot, freedom of expression is just taken for granted where I live, so it's easy to forget that not everyone has this right. I hope you will one day.

BearX220

Absolutely it is -- these are punitive experiences with no security function (ask yourself why this interest in your pubic area, but not the small of your back, shoulder blades, armpits, soles of your feet). The intent is to humiliate you into accepting the Nude-o-Scopes. I know it is asking a lot, but please resist.

Given the cynical intent of the patdown it is OK to hate your abuser. She too has free will.

Go away. Among the hundreds of points to be made in response to your statement is: TSOs aren't exactly doctors and nurses. They barely count as professional given their employment requirements and minimal training. If you place so little value on your privacy that you're willing to give it away to leering amateurs in blue shirts staging security theater, that's a sad choice you're making, but it's your choice.

You go away too.

Kigali

Do you have the authority to make me go away, or are you rather like a TSA agent whose desire to bully exceeds his authority?

jbart74

Welcome to our 'backward primitive country." I'd love to know where how many US dollars we send to your country every year. If none, then I'd love to know how many scientists we employ to keep you safe, how many of our armed troops are focused on keeping you safe, and how many of our satellites are watching your back.

jb

BearX220

Certainly not. While I would like you to go away, you do as you wish. This is a community built on tolerance and mutual respect, and it's extraordinarily civil most of the time given the sensitive subject matter. I cannot imagine, however, that a brand new poster who opens by attacking FT's home country as "primitive", "backward," incapable of "handling freedom," etc., in an ad hominem manner has come prepared to contribute in that spirit. You have not yet said anything about travel safety and security.

If and when you do, welcome to Flyertalk.

TXagogo

Am I the only one noticing that lately there have been numerous "new" members on here with very few posts who are jumping into these discussions with a highly pro scanner, pro-security viewpoint?

Some of them may be legitimate but I am beginning to wonder if the TSA folks are recruiting their friends/colleag -I mean-work buds to come on here and create an illusion that there is a huge network of people passionately against us.

Personally, I am very cautious about whom I respond to based on number of posts until I have a good feeling for the validity of the poster.

jbart74

I might respond to them, especially the ones who intend to disrupt harmony, but I'm still not going to go through the NoScopes. They should know better. I really don't think anyone that appears here is going to change anyone who has been here's mind... That punctuation is horrible, but I think you all get my point.

TXagogo

Oh I definitely agree - we are a passionate group for sure. But responding to them could detract our time and energy away from important issues that bear discussing and ideas that could be useful.

Every minute I spend on here is valuable because it is time I am taking away from work, friends, family, personal relaxation, etc... Personally, I want to make darn sure my time is being used to the maximum benefit for this cause that I greatly believe in.

BearX220

Interesting thought, but most of those new posters I've seen are not using logic, charm, or reason to win converts. There's a lot of reactionary rhetoric; the most recent example was simply an ad hominem attack on the entire United States. If you were running a CIA program to sway public opinion in Lebanon or Pakistan, you wouldn't go on Lebanese or Pakistani BBS systems to post barely grammatical screeds about how Lebanon and Pakistan are horrible, primitive places.

I think it's just that FT comes up in search results more often these days which begets more traffic and a less specialized, broader audience. There's no evidence that many of these people are even frequent flyers. One relatively new poster with passionate views on airport security and checkpoint strategy admitted to me via PM that he or she had not even flown in at least a year. The newbies are sometimes just in it for the verbal jousting and borderline troll-sport, I think.

jbart74

Sorry TX, and no need to reply. I get what you are saying. Unfortunately, I take great pleasure in screwing the a*holes that turn up every now and then. I too have family, work, and pleasure time, but surely I spend way too much time online (and that is not sarcasm!) I love it here and I appreciate that you have more important things to do (I really do!) I respect your ability to walk away more than you can know. I still need lions and tigers and bears... I guess I want what you have! (again... not sarcasm!)


JB

TXagogo

Hi Bear,
I probably should have been more clear.

I am not that much of a conspiracy theorist to suggest that TSA administration is bringing high-level employees or CIA operatives here. LOL.

What I am suggesting is that some clerks may be saying to their work buds "Hey buddy, you gotta check out this site where all there (sp incorrect on purpose lol) people are against the TSA. Man, if this **** goes down we might lose our jobs or somethin. Check out this link and see if you can get em all ticked off. Just go to www...."

From the tone of the posts, including the grammar and the generic arguments they give, it seems like this may be what is happening. Of course, there are other possibilities too. But I thought I'd throw it out there as food for thought.

TXagogo

Hi JBart - Trust me I understand. I used to be like that! Not sure how old you are (I'm 34) but when I was in my 20s I was ready to take on anyone who looked at me the wrong way (slight exaggeration but you know what I'm saying). Don't get me wrong I still get fired up easily, but I have gotten a little more selective at where I direct my ire

Oh - I think healthy doses of SSRIs have helped in that aspect too!

jbart74

If I may... I don't think the CIA gives a rat's ... about the TSA so I will safely assume that there is no collusion there. I agree wholeheartedly about the TSA guys sharing pics and photos with their buddies. What follows is the REAL terrorists getting the TSA troops to share more personal info that they DO have access to. That's the scary part. These may be Government Employees, but they don't have to have a HS Diploma. Are you comfortable with them having your data? (or looking at you naked?)

JB