AllieKat

But we are discussing the TSA having millimetre wave scanners, not private employers. There ARE employers who have them and scan their employees to prevent contraband coming in to secure areas.

RadioGirl

It doesn't matter that it's TSA operating the scanner. I frequently travel with colleagues and/or my boss, and sometimes with more senior management as well. If I get stuck at a checkpoint explaining my medical issues, they may well overhear it (see numerous threads where TSA staff shout things like "he's wearing a diaper" or "there's some strange object in her bra.") Even if they don't hear, if I get held up every time I got through a checkpoint, it's only natural that they're going to ask.

For the record, my colleagues know that I have a hip implant, that I'm likely to get delayed at (non-US/non-TSA) security when I set off the WTMD, and that they should go first and keep an eye on my stuff. But a hip replacement is not, in my line of work, something that would affect my employment future. Having to disclose cancer or other serious diseases would be more complicated.

neko

The number of people whochoose to work in e.g prisons and extremely high security facilities is extremely small. A very small number of people choose to work as strippers and porn actors, too. Does that make it OK to strip search (electronically or otherwise) members of the public in their ordinary life?

neko

Even if TSA politely manages to not shout, for frequent fliers based out of small airports, medical information is simply not going to stay anonymous . A few flights a day, a handful of TSA staff, a frequent flyer -- pretty soon someone is going to notice that Mary Smith, who flies every week or so is the one with an ostomy.

RadioGirl

Agreed - this is a major problem with the body scanners and is not an issue with WTMD.

AllieKat

Be real, WTMD can reveal very private medical details too (implants, etc). So can pat-downs.

The nature of medical devices are that they will be and SHOULD BE found. If one can have a medical device on them without being discovered, they can just as easily have a bomb on them.

Now, I agree with your privacy concerns 100%. But the answer isn't not finding concealed objects. The answer is discovering a way to maintain privacy. For one, they need more courteous and professional staff who can be discreet (the diaper example). Two, if anything abnormal appears they should IMMEDIATELY offer private screening without saying why - simply "you've been selected for further screening, would you like it to be in private?"

That way, your coworkers need know nothing more than you get very unlucky.

ChefBills

This is the op, I couldn't get back into my email for that account.

I really wasn't trying to turn this into a big debate guys. I'm just not comfortable having my pregnant wife go through the mmw or having somebody touching her such to make her uncomfortable. That's cool if people disagree with us, this is just us.

I'm just looking for some help to find an airport/terminal to use the regular old WTMDs like sticky thread at the top of this board was designed to do.

Thanks in advance,
Bill

pinkcat

I can understand your concerns completely, when I have opted out, the female pat down has always been very professional and polite, I explained my reluctance because of my husbands brain tumour and the TSA operative doing the pat down was very sympathetic and chatty- this was at PHL terminal A

As for big debate, 20 odd posts is nothing these debates can rumble on for weeks and be a good deal less polite than this one One thing we all love is a debate whichever side of the fence we stand

mikeef

If there is a medical condition that prevents her from holding her arms out straight at shoulder height, they are supposed to let her walk through the WTMD, no pat-down necessary. You are NOT an opt-out in this case.

Your wife's collarbone injury, for instance, would necessitate a WTMD.

Mike

opethfan

So they're even less effective?

That doesn't explain the Florida courthouse that released images via a FOIA request. Frankly, unless the source code can be made publicly audited, I won't take this claim seriously at all (and even if the source can be audited, how can we confirm the same code is running on production machines?)

If there are no privacy concerns, why are there forums and sites and Facebook groups and local government lobbying to stop it?

You cannot simply dismiss contrary opinions with a call to "get real" - such is the language of freestyle rap battles, and not debate over the extent on which a government is allowed to coerce you to step into a machine expressly intended to look under your clothing.

theddo

A quick glance at the anti-vaccination movement would probably explain that.

First time I've heard "facebook groups" cited as a source.

opethfan

I hate the anti-vac movement as much as any other person who respects health and freedom from disease; but there is a reason for the pushback (even if it now means more kids are vaccinated sooner, lololololol: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...erta-1.2626122) and some have hypothesized that allowing vaccinations to become routine and almost dogmatic has meant that the pros, cons, and objections have been ignored or insufficiently addressed, leading to the counter-movement.

The difference being that the anti-vac movement has no evidence, or redacted evidence for their claims, while the civil rights objectors to the TSA have more respected individuals among their ranks (like cryptographer / security expert Bruce Schenier) and a complete absence of terrorist attacks thwarted by these techniques.

theddo

The anti vaccination movement was based on fraudulent science and the person who wrote those articles lost his license. A few really good vaccines have been removed from the marked due to fears of side effects which has never been substantiated.

The millimetre wave scanners work in the field of physiology, medicine or physics. Why a cryptography expert, likely interested in privacy, would comment on that is beyond me. They are, by all accounts, safe. They are supposed to produce an artistic rendering only but I can't vouch for that.

stifle

Yes, loads. All over the world.

Schmurrr

WTMDs are not virtually stripping people, WTMDs don't generate images that can be viewed or stored, and WTMDs don't alarm on sanitary products, folds of flesh, patches of sweat, and other nonmetallic objects that present zero threat to a plane. WTMDs are targeted to a specific threat. TSA claims that their procedures at checkpoints are "administrative" searches, which ought to mean that searches are no more intrusive than necessary if they are to satisfy the Fourth Amendment. Are the body imagers no more intrusive than necessary? NO. Are they even effective? NO--because they miss items (e.g., look up the Jon Corbett video), they can't tell the difference between threats and non-threats (i.e., they are not targeted), and they generate way too many false positives. They don't detect ingested items or items in body cavities, and they don't stop airport and TSA employees from smuggling items through checkpoints. All they do is make uninformed flyers feel better and pad the bank accounts of connected security industry vendors.